the

and said something that would baffle the world for the next three decades.

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just south of Area 51 in the Nevada desert,

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where his job, his actual job, was to reverse-engineer the propulsion system of a craft,

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Ladies and gentlemen, today's guest is the white whale of American alchemy guests,

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the enigmatic and ever-elusive Bob Lazar.

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We've also seen past directors of the CIA, congressmen and women,

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and whistleblowers across agencies endorsing the existence of a decades-long,

[0:01:36 - 0:01:42] ▶

He's still the only person to have gone public claiming he worked directly on a craft of non-human origin.

[0:01:53 - 0:02:00] ▶

They really wanted to see if they could affect the flow of time.

[0:02:06 - 0:02:10] ▶

John Lear was super into UFOs before you got the job.

[0:02:29 - 0:02:34] ▶

We learn new details about where the craft he worked on was actually retrieved.

[0:02:49 - 0:02:54] ▶

We discuss the beings that may have occupied it,

[0:02:54 - 0:02:57] ▶

He's still investigating the gravity-altering force he encountered

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while working on a flying saucer in the 80s.

[0:03:09 - 0:03:12] ▶

How did the reactor work?

[0:03:19 - 0:03:21] ▶

I also had the honor of showing Bob legendary, never-before-seen footage of a UFO at Area 51.

[0:03:41 - 0:03:49] ▶

I'm going to the beginning.

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the maker of S4, the Bob Lazar story.

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We really, really paid attention to what Bob said throughout the entire time.

[0:04:22 - 0:04:29] ▶

Without further ado, please welcome this week's American alchemist, the man who helped reverse

[0:04:32 - 0:04:38] ▶

engineer a UFO, went public, and lived to tell the tale.

[0:04:38 - 0:04:42] ▶

The original UFO whistleblower, Bob Lazar.

[0:04:42 - 0:04:46] ▶

The existence cannot longer be denied.

[0:04:56 - 0:05:00] ▶

We're living through the biggest transformation of the financial system in a hundred years.

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And most people are still using the same platforms their parents used.

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I started to investigate the financial space in 2012 because I genuinely believed that the fiat dollar

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I've spent 13 years researching it, living it, talking to the most serious minds building

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Kraken is the platform I kept coming back to with my own money.

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Because I've used the product and I already believed in what they're building.

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Every other investing platform is essentially the old system with a better app on top.

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And when everything went catastrophically wrong in this industry, the people responsible for

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making customers whole didn't go to the biggest names in finance.

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Anyone in the world can verify it at any time.

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It's the whole point.

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Owning the power of your money isn't just a belief.

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It's the whole point.

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I know the founders Jeff and Michael personally, and I was thrilled when they agreed to sponsor

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the show because it's one of the few products I trust to give me clean, sustainable energy.

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The reason I keep coming back to these products is because I don't really do coffee.

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Here's the science behind why it actually works.

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So the same technology that's used by soldiers in high-demand environments is now available

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to anyone in the form of this little drink.

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in the sky or they've had ephemeral experiences, sometimes even with beings.

[0:09:52 - 0:09:57] ▶

There are very few people who have consistently held to the exact same story over the last

[0:09:57 - 0:10:04] ▶

And I just want to thank, before we start, Luigi Vendatelli, who is the amazing creator

[0:10:24 - 0:10:29] ▶

Yeah, for the most part.

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And, you know, you're already trying to put the kibosh on it here.

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I watched the, uh, oh, the super marionation series like, uh, Fireball XL5 and Thunderbirds.

[0:12:00 - 0:12:09] ▶

It was just a prediction of the future to me.

[0:12:25 - 0:12:27] ▶

It just looked like eventually the stuff's going to happen.

[0:12:32 - 0:12:35] ▶

And for the most part, science fiction turns into science given enough time.

[0:12:35 - 0:12:39] ▶

They'll always point back to Star Trek and always give that a nod because that was, so that was probably the biggest thing back there in the sixties and seventies.

[0:12:58 - 0:13:07] ▶

Interesting. You ended up at, at Pierce. Is that right? Or what was the, what was the kind of progression from?

[0:13:19 - 0:13:26] ▶

You know, it depends where I was at the time when I went to California and, you know, on the East coast. So.

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It was, it was just location dependent. You know, as like I mentioned the other day, I moved so much.

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It was just the way it was.

[0:14:05 - 0:14:06] ▶

I think there was some potentially shady stuff going on in the, the background.

[0:14:13 - 0:14:18] ▶

Um, he had, I know he had some connection to the mob at some point.

[0:14:24 - 0:14:28] ▶

I mean, he had like a, a food business, a wholesale food business, you know, that distributed food to grocery stores, you know, all over the place.

[0:14:29 - 0:14:38] ▶

I mean, I remember when I was a little kid of the, uh, what do they call it?

[0:14:43 - 0:14:50] ▶

Harness racing, you know, where they sit in a little sulky behind the horse, little two wheeled contraption.

[0:14:50 - 0:14:56] ▶

Um, you know, I remember those guys, um, the jockeys, riders, whatever you want to call them.

[0:14:57 - 0:15:05] ▶

But I remember, you know, playing in the living room and hearing those guys deciding who's going to win the race and things of that sort.

[0:15:05 - 0:15:12] ▶

Yeah, especially back down in the, you know, early seventies and stuff.

[0:15:23 - 0:15:27] ▶

And so he was involved in that, but maybe there was some other stuff kind of going on in the, in the background.

[0:15:32 - 0:15:37] ▶

So, I mean, we did, we did move around a lot, but, um, spent most of the time either in.

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You know, I've got other things I'd rather learn, but, you know, the classes that I was

[0:16:56 - 0:17:01] ▶

And then how, how'd you get the job at Los Alamos?

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At the time I was working at, uh, Fairchild Electronics in, in Simi Valley, California.

[0:17:18 - 0:17:24] ▶

But really laid heavily on the stuff, not my work history, things that I did aside from

[0:17:33 - 0:17:41] ▶

Then, in fact, that was one of the things I, you know, sent in a resume to him.

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Oh, by the way, I built this car.

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And, uh, yeah, when I moved there, the local paper put that on the front page because they

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And in fact, they yelled at me for, you can't run the jet coming into the lab because it

[0:18:11 - 0:18:16] ▶

scares the shit out of everybody.

[0:18:16 - 0:18:17] ▶

How fast would the car go?

[0:18:17 - 0:18:19] ▶

Maybe, but that's how fast the car went.

[0:18:45 - 0:18:49] ▶

But the Honda Civic is not set up for the jet engine that you put on it.

[0:18:49 - 0:18:55] ▶

Oh, so you helped with the suspension.

[0:18:58 - 0:19:00] ▶

Well, while working at Los Alamos National Lab in 1982, the local newspaper did a front

[0:19:06 - 0:19:12] ▶

So Edward Teller for the audience was the creator of the hydrogen bomb.

[0:19:19 - 0:19:26] ▶

Coincidentally, that same day on the paper, if you turn over the front sheet, was the advertisement

[0:19:27 - 0:19:33] ▶

for Ed Teller coming the next day.

[0:19:33 - 0:19:36] ▶

Giving a lecture at the lab.

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He's sitting outside reading the paper because the door was locked.

[0:19:47 - 0:19:51] ▶

He's reading the front page of the paper because or else I really didn't know how to go out

[0:19:59 - 0:20:04] ▶

But I went, oh, it's the perfect segue.

[0:20:05 - 0:20:07] ▶

So I was like, I, Ed, I'm the guy you're reading about there.

[0:20:09 - 0:20:12] ▶

That's the only way I could describe him.

[0:20:17 - 0:20:19] ▶

And so what was the conversation like?

[0:20:35 - 0:20:36] ▶

And then you can hear the door unclick, swing open.

[0:20:57 - 0:21:00] ▶

And then he's questioning on you, and he has the exact same reaction.

[0:21:41 - 0:21:44] ▶

I mean, I spoke to the guy before he went and interviewed Teller.

[0:22:08 - 0:22:16] ▶

But he denied you in the same way.

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the most powerful nuclear reaction there is.

[0:23:14 - 0:23:16] ▶

And he's clearly also denying the nuclear knowledge in the same way that he's denying his link to you.

[0:23:18 - 0:23:25] ▶

And so you were at Los Alamos and were you working with other physicists at the time?

[0:23:33 - 0:23:39] ▶

I did some, I was building, I think this was for the particle accelerator.

[0:23:46 - 0:23:53] ▶

They wanted to be able to trim the voltage to a very fine degree.

[0:23:53 - 0:23:58] ▶

the electric fields or anything.

[0:24:12 - 0:24:13] ▶

And day-to-day there was just maintenance on the targets and experiments we were doing.

[0:24:15 - 0:24:20] ▶

So we'd be working on, you know, the detection equipment.

[0:24:47 - 0:24:50] ▶

Or setting up the experiment and it all had to do with, you know, the output of the accelerator and adjusting that.

[0:24:51 - 0:25:03] ▶

And the beam splits off.

[0:25:11 - 0:25:14] ▶

And they can put different things in the targets to make different particles and go different directions.

[0:25:26 - 0:25:30] ▶

And depending on the speed of the particle going by and its spin and how long it's in transit, you can calculate its mass and, you know, backtrack and then put things together.

[0:25:30 - 0:25:42] ▶

And then it busts apart and all the pieces go flying off.

[0:25:59 - 0:26:02] ▶

You could see if one was spinning a certain direction and you know the rotation and how fast it came off, then you know the mass of it.

[0:26:06 - 0:26:14] ▶

If it was turning before and by the angles, you can put it back there and eventually you can reassemble the thing and see how it was made just from the particles flying apart.

[0:26:14 - 0:26:24] ▶

Did you, did you get the sense that there were two branches of science, science that was a little more classified and then public science?

[0:26:37 - 0:26:47] ▶

I thought we were all on the same level.

[0:26:50 - 0:26:51] ▶

He said that he was working on something for the government at, and they sent him to MIT to learn something.

[0:27:12 - 0:27:21] ▶

It's going to be off the books.

[0:27:47 - 0:27:48] ▶

Yeah, I mean, but it's also, you also can't talk about it because it's still, I mean, look, the government's never going to come and prosecute me.

[0:27:49 - 0:27:59] ▶

But assuming I was working on a weapon system, that's always, that's still covered under the security agreement.

[0:28:04 - 0:28:13] ▶

They're, you know, we're always at the forefront of nanotechnology.

[0:28:35 - 0:28:37] ▶

And so the idea that.

[0:28:37 - 0:28:39] ▶

And, you know, the idea that you would get sent to that school specifically and work on something that you can't talk about is very feasible.

[0:29:00 - 0:29:09] ▶

If you wanted to hire a guy who could think clearly out of the box and help solve problems, but who could be discredited if you needed to do that.

[0:29:22 - 0:29:32] ▶

Bob was probably the best person in the country at the time.

[0:29:32 - 0:29:35] ▶

So including the guards, we're getting in.

[0:30:13 - 0:30:15] ▶

There are people who are like, oh, he just quizzed the physicists, you know, at Los Alamos, but he really had some other job there or something.

[0:30:51 - 0:30:59] ▶

I just don't pay attention to the detractors and the nonsense.

[0:31:30 - 0:31:34] ▶

Now, I never met Dr. Teller again, but in 1988, when I decided to reenter the scientific community, I sent him a resume and inquired about a job.

[0:31:41 - 0:31:49] ▶

He gave me the name of a contact to call in Las Vegas.

[0:31:56 - 0:31:59] ▶

I made that call and things progressed from there until I got into the program at S4.

[0:32:00 - 0:32:04] ▶

And so you send him the resume and he remembers you somehow.

[0:32:04 - 0:32:07] ▶

Because I made mention of the jet car in Los Alamos.

[0:32:08 - 0:32:10] ▶

Or, or if he did send the resumes, I don't know what happened behind the scenes.

[0:32:31 - 0:32:35] ▶

Did you know anything about EG&G at the time or?

[0:32:35 - 0:32:38] ▶

They did all the, uh, I mean, those are the guys that came out and figured how to, you know, photograph, uh, you know, an exploding nuclear bomb without it getting overexposed.

[0:32:39 - 0:32:50] ▶

I knew they were just, uh, you know, a contractor that did weird stuff for the government, but, you know, leaning heavily in the nuclear testing area.

[0:33:03 - 0:33:11] ▶

It's a company that is the namesake of Doc Edgerton, who was MIT faculty actually.

[0:33:12 - 0:33:17] ▶

The most important are fast tacks, which operate up to 9,000 frames per second and expose their entire footage in a fraction of a second.

[0:33:24 - 0:33:33] ▶

Have you looked at any of the other, you know, I obviously you're really into nuclear and then you worked on UFOs.

[0:33:33 - 0:33:39] ▶

And he talks about UFOs like tic tac saucers, orbs, all these different shapes and sizes of UFOs showing up at nuclear bases all across the U S.

[0:33:46 - 0:33:57] ▶

And there are 167 whistleblowers who are on what's called the PRP program where they have to report if they're taking ibuprofen because they're guarding the crown jewels of American defense.

[0:34:00 - 0:34:09] ▶

If you're talking about nuclear sites, you are at the very core of national security.

[0:34:30 - 0:34:36] ▶

So my point is, is if you're doing the photography of that early on, you've got to have some asymmetric knowledge of UFO stuff.

[0:34:36 - 0:34:44] ▶

They were the guys documenting and photographing everything from every angle from everywhere.

[0:34:46 - 0:34:50] ▶

Even there's this thing called the, you know, the Wilson Davis memo where the scientist who actually lives in Austin, his name is Eric Davis, meets with the head of J2 joint chiefs who under whose purview is all military technology.

[0:35:04 - 0:35:18] ▶

And they're in the parking lot of EG&G.

[0:35:20 - 0:35:23] ▶

I didn't know what the job was.

[0:35:44 - 0:35:46] ▶

And somewhere in the middle of it, they said, you know, we actually have a different job that we're thinking of plugging you into now.

[0:35:49 - 0:35:56] ▶

I think I went to the bathroom and when I came back, they said, we're changing channels.

[0:35:56 - 0:36:00] ▶

Something else is going to be for EG&G or the Department of Naval Intelligence.

[0:36:10 - 0:36:15] ▶

I don't know what, again, what went on behind the scenes, but there were two jobs there and they decided I'd be better off with the second one.

[0:36:19 - 0:36:26] ▶

And the second one was S4 out at the Papoose Lake area.

[0:36:26 - 0:36:31] ▶

And then when you go to the bathroom, why do they.

[0:36:38 - 0:36:40] ▶

The, the, the, that UFO thing we're stuck on.

[0:36:44 - 0:36:46] ▶

And I think they, they were, they kept, you know, just because of the way the place is arranged.

[0:36:54 - 0:37:01] ▶

Um, they kept trying to attack the problem from the same direction all the time, you know, which is only going to yield the same result.

[0:37:02 - 0:37:11] ▶

That's the definition of crazy, right?

[0:37:16 - 0:37:18] ▶

Doing the same thing and expecting different results.

[0:37:18 - 0:37:20] ▶

And, you know, like the projects I built, why did you do that?

[0:37:35 - 0:37:39] ▶

Um, and I, I think they were just looking at trying to find somebody that was outside of the box.

[0:37:40 - 0:37:47] ▶

Cause before that you had really straight laced scientists, physicists, technicians, you know, that abided by the rules and all that.

[0:37:50 - 0:37:57] ▶

But the, you know, they said it's at a remote area and the work hours can vary.

[0:38:08 - 0:38:12] ▶

Some people only go out three days a week and, you know, so, and some people are just on call and, you know, for the time being, it would probably just probably need you sporadically going out there on call.

[0:38:24 - 0:38:36] ▶

So I thought, wow, if it's out in the desert, um, it's probably, I thought it was the only thing I knew about the desert was at that time, it's a nuclear test site.

[0:38:42 - 0:38:50] ▶

And I was going to be at, uh, you know, the nuclear test site at somewhere, you know, stationed near Mercury.

[0:38:57 - 0:39:04] ▶

The way it worked was they'd call me at random days and they'd say, Mr. Lazard is now such and such time.

[0:39:06 - 0:39:16] ▶

I'd go through a little security there and then out on the tarmac and board one of the Janet flights.

[0:39:24 - 0:39:30] ▶

They were only used by the government for going back and forth to the test site.

[0:39:31 - 0:39:34] ▶

And, uh, I still thought I was at the, you know, I didn't know it.

[0:39:44 - 0:39:49] ▶

As all the, all the, you know, the test sites split up into areas.

[0:40:02 - 0:40:05] ▶

You know, these, I've told the story so much and it's been so long.

[0:40:13 - 0:40:17] ▶

All the days kind of mix and infuse into one now.

[0:40:17 - 0:40:21] ▶

What'd you do on the third day?

[0:40:24 - 0:40:25] ▶

But I don't think we drove down on the first day.

[0:40:29 - 0:40:32] ▶

Uh, but the second day for sure, we drove down, um, got in the bus and it was a long bumpy ride.

[0:40:34 - 0:40:40] ▶

Um, and that the windows were blacked out on the bus and it was just a navy blue painted bus.

[0:40:40 - 0:40:48] ▶

Um, by the time we got there, it got off the bus.

[0:40:50 - 0:40:53] ▶

I, I mean, the sun was setting to my right.

[0:40:53 - 0:40:56] ▶

And who's Dennis for the audience?

[0:41:07 - 0:41:09] ▶

Um, we get past him and then they had to train the, uh, hand reader to give me, uh, a card to open the doors.

[0:41:25 - 0:41:34] ▶

So that's the first time I saw that hand scanner.

[0:41:34 - 0:41:38] ▶

I get the card.

[0:41:39 - 0:41:40] ▶

He shows me this, you swipe on the door and it records every time you come in and out and do everything.

[0:41:40 - 0:41:45] ▶

Once you're in the room with the scanner, there's nothing.

[0:41:48 - 0:41:50] ▶

It's kind of on the side of a mountain.

[0:42:11 - 0:42:12] ▶

You know, it's, so the hangers are right on the side or it's a hill.

[0:42:13 - 0:42:17] ▶

So the hangers are there and then the carter is in back of the hangers.

[0:42:20 - 0:42:23] ▶

So that explains why the corridors were so long.

[0:42:30 - 0:42:33] ▶

We went to review the briefings first.

[0:42:40 - 0:42:43] ▶

So that was off to the right.

[0:42:43 - 0:42:45] ▶

We came in, there was a desk there had, somebody had already laid out all the, uh, the briefings,

[0:42:46 - 0:42:53] ▶

which were summaries of the projects going on.

[0:42:53 - 0:42:56] ▶

Project Galileo was the first, uh, you know, the first briefing on there.

[0:43:07 - 0:43:11] ▶

But Galileo dealt with the propulsion system of the craft.

[0:43:30 - 0:43:35] ▶

And, um, and the directives that are given, uh, there were two primary directives is one

[0:43:35 - 0:43:43] ▶

to, uh, duplicate the propulsion system or components thereof with available materials,

[0:43:43 - 0:43:50] ▶

It said, um, and directive two was to be able to remotely, um, disable the operation of the

[0:43:52 - 0:44:00] ▶

Um, uh, and some, I don't know how it was worded somewhere, the word at all costs was

[0:44:00 - 0:44:07] ▶

I do think that's an important distinction in the mandate of the program.

[0:44:18 - 0:44:22] ▶

I mean, the, the bottom line is we want to produce the effects this machine is having.

[0:44:38 - 0:44:43] ▶

Which makes sense given the skillset they seem to take interest in with you because you are

[0:44:50 - 0:44:56] ▶

this outside of the box thinker.

[0:44:56 - 0:44:58] ▶

Who might be extremely high IQ, but, uh, isn't necessarily rebellious in the way they think

[0:45:06 - 0:45:13] ▶

And, and just for the audience, what is sidekick and what is project looking glass?

[0:45:22 - 0:45:27] ▶

Sidekick was the weapon potential of the craft.

[0:45:27 - 0:45:29] ▶

The craft, if you're familiar with it, has three of the, uh, emitters on the bottom look

[0:45:30 - 0:45:36] ▶

like large trash cans and they send out the gravity waves or whatever form of energy is.

[0:45:36 - 0:45:43] ▶

So, um, I don't know where the, what the source was, but that's, that's just what the briefing contained in it.

[0:46:04 - 0:46:12] ▶

No, I mean, some of the stuff in there was just nonsense.

[0:46:21 - 0:46:25] ▶

Um, you know, there is stuff like, you know, the aliens had made 65 corrections to, um, you know, in the evolution of humans and things.

[0:46:30 - 0:46:40] ▶

And as Barry explained to me, um, he said, look, they keep everything classified here, but if somebody says something, you know, and they hear it on the grapevine, they said, yeah, they've got a disc, an alien craft at, you know, down at the test site.

[0:46:40 - 0:46:59] ▶

They go, Lazar is the guy that.

[0:47:15 - 0:47:16] ▶

At some point I went to the nurse who, um, it was the only female that was there.

[0:47:29 - 0:47:35] ▶

And I think that was because the vitamin B was in there and I could, I can taste that because it's really a nasty taste.

[0:48:00 - 0:48:07] ▶

Although we were plenty afraid of the, uh, reactor.

[0:49:34 - 0:49:38] ▶

Cause they see these new fighters flying around and, you know, but, um, yeah, it became quickly obvious that that wasn't the case.

[0:50:00 - 0:50:09] ▶

Like we have no idea how the thing works.

[0:50:09 - 0:50:11] ▶

It does stuff that's physically impossible and there's no country in the world could make something like that or have the power density that it has.

[0:50:11 - 0:50:22] ▶

So to, you know, to, to affect space and time, like if another country was able to build something like that, the United States wouldn't exist, you know.

[0:50:24 - 0:50:34] ▶

A hundred percent not possible is it's as far as if we have to consider it being a 52, almost 53 foot diameter craft, the main level, which is the level that Bob was able to access.

[0:50:59 - 0:51:14] ▶

And, and at one point stand up in the middle of that main level is in the center of the disc.

[0:51:14 - 0:51:22] ▶

And there is nothing that was visually witnessed on the bottom level.

[0:51:22 - 0:51:29] ▶

You know, that's, that's the first I've ever heard of that angle.

[0:51:42 - 0:51:45] ▶

I think you know more about the craft at this point.

[0:51:48 - 0:51:52] ▶

Because of the thickness of the floor that we could see because of the lip of the access way, we could see the thickness of the floor.

[0:51:52 - 0:52:02] ▶

Also where the honeycomb hatchway is, you could see the thickness of the floor.

[0:52:02 - 0:52:07] ▶

What is the color of the craft itself?

[0:52:42 - 0:52:45] ▶

It's kind of a pewter stainless looking, but it's Luigi and I were talking about this the other day.

[0:52:45 - 0:52:55] ▶

And, uh, what's interesting is that I, my friend, Gene Huff, who was my kind of confidant at the time.

[0:53:08 - 0:53:16] ▶

And, um, you know, I tell him about this stuff and I said, you know, one of the weirdest things is if you're, if you're close to it, you know, it, it, it looks like the craft.

[0:53:16 - 0:53:27] ▶

Um, when they take the camera and they put it in the hanger and look at it close up, it looks like it should.

[0:53:49 - 0:53:54] ▶

And if they back it off, it doesn't look the same.

[0:53:54 - 0:53:57] ▶

I mean, they've got the model so close that it has, it's taken on some of the characteristics of the actual craft.

[0:54:03 - 0:54:10] ▶

And there's a part of the craft that you describe as blacker than black.

[0:54:11 - 0:54:15] ▶

You know what they call the portholes around the top?

[0:54:18 - 0:54:21] ▶

I think there's a black ring that goes around the top part of the craft and that's, we call that the insulator ring.

[0:54:24 - 0:54:32] ▶

They are assumed to be like some sort of planar array where there is some, something similar to a computer in the top section.

[0:54:44 - 0:54:53] ▶

And when you go in there and look at the craft, it's a real ominous, creepy feeling.

[0:55:33 - 0:55:39] ▶

And a lot of it is because of the black.

[0:55:40 - 0:55:42] ▶

Did anybody else say that going into the craft gave them an ominous feeling?

[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶

And, and just being in the craft generally, was that like a kind of ubiquitously known thing at S4?

[0:55:56 - 0:56:02] ▶

Because the first thing you think, boy, that must've been so exciting.

[0:56:09 - 0:56:11] ▶

And you walked around the, what looked like the cockpit of this thing.

[0:56:20 - 0:56:24] ▶

And you really can't stand up until you're almost right in the center.

[0:56:31 - 0:56:34] ▶

There's a reason to have all that space and the reason the craft is shaped like that.

[0:56:54 - 0:57:00] ▶

Uh, we know those to be the amplifiers.

[0:57:12 - 0:57:15] ▶

They work with the, with the reactor.

[0:57:15 - 0:57:18] ▶

It amplifies the gravity wave and it's, you know, channeled to the emitter, which is right under the amplifiers.

[0:57:18 - 0:57:26] ▶

Um, again, we just called the seats cause they look like seats.

[0:57:26 - 0:57:30] ▶

Bob always found it to be really weird, uh, that when the wave guide is applied right on top of the reactor,

[0:57:39 - 0:57:47] ▶

There's a, there's a, one of the archways that become transparent.

[0:57:50 - 0:57:53] ▶

Oh, the, the archway becoming transparent is so they can see.

[0:57:59 - 0:58:03] ▶

Oh, and there's a screen that the blue screen with a symbol with the like Korean like language.

[0:58:09 - 0:58:15] ▶

Maybe the whole arch, like the whole, all the archways can become transparent.

[0:58:22 - 0:58:26] ▶

I saw the wall become translucent and at some point saw some kind of what I would call symbols.

[0:58:36 - 0:58:44] ▶

It was just a three dimensional thing in the air.

[0:59:22 - 0:59:25] ▶

Describe the day that you saw this thing fly.

[0:59:30 - 0:59:32] ▶

Um, uh, Barry and I were in the lab and then Dennis came in and he said, Hey, why don't you

[0:59:36 - 0:59:41] ▶

So we go out through the lab door, right into the hangar.

[0:59:45 - 0:59:48] ▶

It was already outside, uh, sitting on the ground.

[0:59:48 - 0:59:52] ▶

So it, it, it made me almost positive that there was somebody in the craft.

[1:00:05 - 1:00:11] ▶

I don't know how, where they'd be sitting or how they would, why they're even in the

[1:00:15 - 1:00:19] ▶

They'd have to be hunched up or trying to sit on the edge of one of those seats.

[1:00:23 - 1:00:26] ▶

So you heard a voice coming from the craft.

[1:00:39 - 1:00:41] ▶

No, from the radio, from the radio, the VHF radio.

[1:00:41 - 1:00:44] ▶

But presumably coming from the craft.

[1:00:44 - 1:00:46] ▶

I mean, they must've had some other instrumentation set up on the crafts because he was monitoring

[1:00:50 - 1:00:54] ▶

Do you remember what the voice?

[1:00:55 - 1:00:56] ▶

Because I, I mean, I was more stuck on the fact that how is a radio wave getting into

[1:00:58 - 1:01:03] ▶

the craft?

[1:01:03 - 1:01:04] ▶

I mean, it should be distorted by the gravity wave going around it.

[1:01:09 - 1:01:12] ▶

Anyway, shortly after the craft began to lift off the ground silently at a little Corona

[1:01:12 - 1:01:19] ▶

discharge glow on the bottom and lift it off and drifted up into the sky and kind of moved

[1:01:19 - 1:01:26] ▶

And then he told me to walk forward and the craft was just sitting there stationary.

[1:01:37 - 1:01:41] ▶

I looked up and I couldn't see the craft.

[1:01:46 - 1:01:48] ▶

I see the edge of the, the craft.

[1:02:00 - 1:02:02] ▶

So you can clearly see it's, it's bending the light.

[1:02:08 - 1:02:11] ▶

You can see the sky above the craft.

[1:02:11 - 1:02:13] ▶

And, um, then it kind of slid over to the left and right and then sat back down.

[1:02:15 - 1:02:22] ▶

and what we, you know, it's just like, look at the, you know, Nimitz, you know, 2004 FLIR

[1:02:30 - 1:02:35] ▶

video or, or even some of the, maybe better example, some of the optical videos, which

[1:02:35 - 1:02:39] ▶

But when you're seeing this craft fly, are you thinking this is the UFO stuff that's like

[1:02:48 - 1:02:54] ▶

in the lore?

[1:02:54 - 1:02:54] ▶

I'm just because of the, the way that it can move, it can just negate.

[1:02:58 - 1:03:03] ▶

know, the shape of the craft is sort of really confusing to us.

[1:03:31 - 1:03:34] ▶

How the hell do they know how to fly this thing?

[1:03:34 - 1:03:37] ▶

So, I mean, they, they knew the emitters have to be rotated, you know, to couple to the

[1:03:56 - 1:04:02] ▶

No, it's like the, you know, analogy I, I gave, you know, you can go back to the 1800s

[1:04:47 - 1:04:54] ▶

With the keys in it.

[1:04:57 - 1:04:58] ▶

And look at the plastic fenders on it.

[1:05:04 - 1:05:06] ▶

And, you know, there's the key.

[1:05:09 - 1:05:11] ▶

And eventually if you tinker with it long enough, someone's going to turn the key and it's

[1:05:11 - 1:05:14] ▶

Do you guys think there's any chance that the craft is flown with somebody's mind, some

[1:06:15 - 1:06:20] ▶

When the craft was being tested, the only test I saw from close range, it was already

[1:06:31 - 1:06:38] ▶

out of the hangar.

[1:06:38 - 1:06:39] ▶

And when I went into the hangar, the bay doors between all the hangars were open.

[1:06:39 - 1:06:44] ▶

They had big, you know, there's the door that leads to the outside that's at an angle.

[1:06:44 - 1:06:51] ▶

But there's also big bay doors between all the hangars.

[1:06:51 - 1:06:55] ▶

other, because nine of them all the way down there.

[1:07:03 - 1:07:05] ▶

Although the one I call the top hat had holes in it, but it looks like it was shot, you know,

[1:07:24 - 1:07:30] ▶

There's so much missing to the story.

[1:07:40 - 1:07:43] ▶

Did they all look like the exact same sort of replica?

[1:07:43 - 1:07:46] ▶

But the material all looked exactly the same.

[1:07:49 - 1:07:52] ▶

The color, the sheen.

[1:07:52 - 1:07:55] ▶

So it looked like they were all made of the same material.

[1:07:55 - 1:07:58] ▶

So the reactors and the propulsion were all the same.

[1:07:58 - 1:08:01] ▶

The material was all the same.

[1:08:01 - 1:08:02] ▶

But the shapes were somehow different.

[1:08:02 - 1:08:04] ▶

and you go look at all the cars driving around.

[1:08:10 - 1:08:12] ▶

You know, they're all, but they all have the same somewhat type of engine, you know,

[1:08:19 - 1:08:25] ▶

People associate you with the kind of Billy Meyer sports model, like, you know,

[1:08:37 - 1:08:42] ▶

the craft that looks like that.

[1:08:42 - 1:08:43] ▶

Like, I thought Billy Meyer was absolutely ridiculous because I've seen some of the pictures.

[1:08:47 - 1:08:52] ▶

And this is what I mentioned to you the other day, UFO researcher syndrome.

[1:08:52 - 1:08:57] ▶

I think the initial pictures Billy Meyer took of the sport model looking craft are 100% genuine.

[1:08:57 - 1:09:06] ▶

There's no way that there could be another one of those that just coincidentally looks exactly like what I call the sport model.

[1:09:06 - 1:09:16] ▶

And I think at the time he got a lot of attention and, you know, he printed books and everything.

[1:09:21 - 1:09:26] ▶

And the other pictures look ridiculous.

[1:09:34 - 1:09:36] ▶

And so that's the craft you worked on.

[1:10:02 - 1:10:05] ▶

The eight other crafts, what did those look like?

[1:10:06 - 1:10:08] ▶

Clearly, because from the angle, all you can see is just a little piece.

[1:10:13 - 1:10:18] ▶

And then all you can just see is the hanger out there.

[1:10:18 - 1:10:21] ▶

But one looked like what I call a jello mold, which is more like a bundt cake without the hole in the middle.

[1:10:22 - 1:10:29] ▶

And then the other one, as I previously mentioned, a top hat, like a carnival straw hat.

[1:10:29 - 1:10:35] ▶

And the brim had a hole in it.

[1:10:35 - 1:10:38] ▶

Yeah, on the sport model.

[1:10:51 - 1:10:53] ▶

I saw that, like, the first day that I went in.

[1:10:53 - 1:10:56] ▶

I know, I mean, I know the Navy got the sport model.

[1:11:02 - 1:11:08] ▶

Which, by the way, isn't in the desert, it's in the water.

[1:11:13 - 1:11:16] ▶

And if there's another term for an archaeological dig that's in the water, I don't know what it is.

[1:11:16 - 1:11:21] ▶

But, yeah, I don't know what body of water, if it was the ocean or lake or what.

[1:11:23 - 1:11:29] ▶

But, yeah, that came from the water.

[1:11:29 - 1:11:31] ▶

But, yeah, that was happened upon by the Navy.

[1:11:34 - 1:11:38] ▶

And I just theorize that's how the Navy got in control of everything.

[1:11:43 - 1:11:47] ▶

He was high up in the Navy, and he talks about retrieval of exotic technology on the seafloor.

[1:12:17 - 1:12:22] ▶

And I wonder, you know, you have Tim Burchette as a congressman from Tennessee who says there are five hot spots in oceans all around the world.

[1:12:23 - 1:12:31] ▶

And that's why, I mean, like we say, we know more about the face of the moon than we do what's going on there.

[1:12:40 - 1:12:46] ▶

And I don't know, there's another, I have one friend in the Navy who's, you know, anonymous source.

[1:12:55 - 1:13:01] ▶

Maybe one day we'll do an interview, but he talks about the movie The Abyss by James Cameron.

[1:13:01 - 1:13:06] ▶

And he says maybe that scene where, you know, this sort of glowing object shows up isn't too far off from the truth.

[1:13:06 - 1:13:13] ▶

Yeah, and we were talking last night with Luigi about Pascagoula, Missouri was the site of the production of nuclear subs for the Navy.

[1:13:22 - 1:13:31] ▶

Yeah, there's something going on with the ocean.

[1:13:39 - 1:13:42] ▶

It's been from the very beginning.

[1:13:43 - 1:13:44] ▶

On the other side, you have Tampere, which seems to be a hotspot.

[1:13:48 - 1:13:51] ▶

You have the Caribbean, Bahamas.

[1:13:51 - 1:13:53] ▶

Do you think there's a possibility it's, you know, the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis?

[1:13:56 - 1:13:59] ▶

They're like the place of what we call Atlantis, are these beings who have coexisted, co-inhabited the Earth with us.

[1:14:12 - 1:14:19] ▶

I mean, if you just look at the size of the ocean, you can hide an entire civilization down there.

[1:14:21 - 1:14:28] ▶

And we'll, especially if they're immune to the effects of the ocean, just got to be deep.

[1:14:28 - 1:14:33] ▶

Would any of the scientific principles that you looked at as far as the bubble being created around the craft and all of that somehow be immune to salt water?

[1:14:35 - 1:14:43] ▶

Because that's one of the...

[1:14:46 - 1:14:47] ▶

That's so interesting because that's the observables.

[1:14:48 - 1:14:50] ▶

It's light bent around the craft.

[1:14:50 - 1:14:51] ▶

And since the 80s, or even before, let's go even all the way down to the 60s, everybody always talked about the U.S. Air Force.

[1:15:08 - 1:15:16] ▶

And it's the Navy that's in charge.

[1:15:27 - 1:15:29] ▶

So, you know, when I see the new whistleblowers come out, like Eric Davis or people that we're seeing, I'm not skeptical at the fact that they were involved in something.

[1:15:33 - 1:15:46] ▶

But the one guy who says he's worked on a craft is somehow full of shit.

[1:16:13 - 1:16:17] ▶

Like, when you see all this stuff around, you know, the ability to manipulate timelines with

[1:16:44 - 1:16:50] ▶

And then they're saying that they found these things at archaeological digs under the ocean.

[1:16:53 - 1:16:59] ▶

Do you have a sense that they have, like, a metaphysical model that's, like, greater than the average citizen?

[1:17:00 - 1:17:07] ▶

I mean, there's just as much chance that they're, you know, time travelers, visitors from another dimension, us from the future, or aliens.

[1:17:25 - 1:17:34] ▶

I go with the aliens just because we've seen it so much in our movie.

[1:17:37 - 1:17:42] ▶

I mean, the other things don't make sense.

[1:18:16 - 1:18:18] ▶

So, yeah, I lean, I guess the Occam's razor is aliens.

[1:18:18 - 1:18:22] ▶

But it could be any one of the other possibilities.

[1:18:24 - 1:18:27] ▶

What do you think was the top speed?

[1:18:31 - 1:18:32] ▶

I mean, the speed it could attain.

[1:18:58 - 1:19:00] ▶

At delta, the speed's going to be near infinite.

[1:19:11 - 1:19:14] ▶

You think almost close to the speed of light?

[1:19:16 - 1:19:19] ▶

No, it'd far exceed the speed of light.

[1:19:21 - 1:19:23] ▶

You know, for a given distance, you'll get, you know, to the destination far faster than

[1:19:32 - 1:19:37] ▶

you would if you were traveling at the speed of light.

[1:19:37 - 1:19:38] ▶

Did you hear anything around pulses involved in the propulsion?

[1:19:50 - 1:19:54] ▶

I don't know what the maximum range of each jump is.

[1:20:01 - 1:20:03] ▶

So, the craft is always doing this.

[1:20:08 - 1:20:11] ▶

When all three of the amplifiers are being used for travel, they're in the Delta configuration.

[1:20:11 - 1:20:15] ▶

And when only one is being used for travel, it's in the Omicron configuration.

[1:20:16 - 1:20:19] ▶

You guys do an amazing job of depicting the configurations.

[1:20:20 - 1:20:24] ▶

Delta is using the three...

[1:20:27 - 1:20:28] ▶

The craft puts its belly in that direction.

[1:20:35 - 1:20:38] ▶

The Omicron is where it only uses one...

[1:20:40 - 1:20:43] ▶

...you know, of the emitters...

[1:20:44 - 1:20:46] ▶

It's doing the opposite.

[1:20:50 - 1:20:51] ▶

Essentially, you create an indentation in space-time so the craft moves forward.

[1:20:52 - 1:20:58] ▶

The craft's sort of wobbling.

[1:21:18 - 1:21:19] ▶

But when it switches to Delta, as soon as the two other amplifiers come on...

[1:21:21 - 1:21:25] ▶

He is the guy in WWE right now.

[1:22:06 - 1:22:09] ▶

But when I was watching the trailer for S4 that you guys released, about 80% of the way through the trailer,

[1:22:58 - 1:23:05] ▶

That looks exactly like the footage that I have.

[1:23:21 - 1:23:25] ▶

So, this footage, supposedly authentic, was taken by two college kids who wanted to go to Area 51 in the 90s.

[1:23:25 - 1:23:36] ▶

A couple of college-age guys drove out to the Black Mailbox, an infamous landmark entrance point to Area 51.

[1:23:48 - 1:23:56] ▶

It's along the road that leads to Groom Lake, extremely close to where Bob said he worked.

[1:23:57 - 1:24:03] ▶

They're parked right in front of the fence surrounding the secret facility.

[1:24:06 - 1:24:10] ▶

The lights are off on their car and they have a camera resting on the armrest pointed through the front windshield.

[1:24:10 - 1:24:16] ▶

And then it cuts to under the dashboard and you see something very clearly illuminating, like, the top of the dashboard.

[1:24:16 - 1:24:25] ▶

And they're, like, hunkered underneath the car and they're whispering to each other, like, I think it's out there.

[1:24:25 - 1:24:30] ▶

Then something appears just beyond the glass.

[1:24:34 - 1:24:45] ▶

The craft is hovering extremely close to the car.

[1:24:51 - 1:24:54] ▶

You can hear the two guys whispering.

[1:25:04 - 1:25:06] ▶

Yeah, it's moving the right way.

[1:25:36 - 1:25:38] ▶

It's the right color.

[1:25:38 - 1:25:39] ▶

And it's the right shape.

[1:25:39 - 1:25:40] ▶

the intensity of the light there's something very very bright that is affecting that the dash is

[1:25:43 - 1:25:55] ▶

being lit it's it's the the dash of the vehicle and the craft is above it right and look at the

[1:25:55 - 1:26:00] ▶

intent here's the dash and look at the intensity of the light that's going to happen here right

[1:26:00 - 1:26:04] ▶

you can see that it wobbles but it wobbles it wobbles that's the important thing yeah so it

[1:26:13 - 1:26:19] ▶

the craft emits an orange reddish color which is not a coincidence a craft with strong field

[1:26:30 - 1:26:41] ▶

interactions like the ones that bob alludes to creates an ionized plasma sheath around itself

[1:26:41 - 1:26:48] ▶

the dominant atmospheric gas on earth is nitrogen ionized nitrogen that interacts with plasma

[1:26:48 - 1:26:54] ▶

moving silently and erratically is one of the most commonly reported ufo descriptions across decades

[1:27:01 - 1:27:08] ▶

what luigi's movie almost definitively vindicates is the existence of s4 remember when bob went public

[1:27:26 - 1:27:41] ▶

in 1989 area 51 itself hadn't even been officially acknowledged by the government and to this day s4's

[1:27:41 - 1:27:50] ▶

go back in time and found a 2022 version of the area surrounding s4 that was not yet blurred to obscure

[1:27:57 - 1:28:05] ▶

the site and yet vehicle tracks are visible in these older satellite images you can clearly see the tracks

[1:28:05 - 1:28:13] ▶

look at them going in every direction and you could look at all the the traffic yeah right yeah that's

[1:28:13 - 1:28:19] ▶

from papoose lake the image had previously circulated online but luigi enhanced the contrast a bit

[1:28:33 - 1:28:40] ▶

to reveal additional details and if you look carefully in this version here where it's the contrast has

[1:28:40 - 1:28:47] ▶

been changed the as we zoom

[1:28:47 - 1:28:50] ▶

look what you see yeah you can start seeing the you see them yeah clearly right there yeah the slanted

[1:28:53 - 1:28:59] ▶

rectangular doors yeah finally and perhaps most damningly the map of papoose lake was literally

[1:28:59 - 1:29:06] ▶

changed the map eight days after bob started to speak out and the map was clearly modified in a way

[1:29:13 - 1:29:19] ▶

that would specifically hide the existence of s4 bob went public on may 15th 1989 and he didn't come

[1:29:19 - 1:29:29] ▶

the united states department of the interior who works on the geological maps of the landscape

[1:29:38 - 1:29:47] ▶

at the test site where it's groom lake papoose lake and the whole nevada test site

[1:29:47 - 1:29:52] ▶

actually modified all the maps there is specifically groom lake and papoose lake and papoose mountain range

[1:29:52 - 1:30:02] ▶

there and there's a stamp on all the modifications because it mod the modification was dated 1989

[1:30:02 - 1:30:09] ▶

so on the actual small print it says maps modified 1989 but the stamp of the exact day

[1:30:10 - 1:30:20] ▶

lake just papoose lake so they're removing s4 no what they removed what the the specificity there is the

[1:30:31 - 1:30:39] ▶

leads down to papoose lake the north end of the lake the road forks off it splits off in two areas

[1:30:47 - 1:30:54] ▶

to the west of papoose lake and to the right of papoose lake where s4 is they specifically removed

[1:30:54 - 1:31:03] ▶

the road to the east of papoose lake and they kept the same one to the west which why would they do that

[1:31:03 - 1:31:11] ▶

why would you suddenly remove the road that goes to s4 and leave everything else and leave everything

[1:31:11 - 1:31:17] ▶

we're inventing stuff this is verifiable you could order these maps the other thing i think that's

[1:31:29 - 1:31:35] ▶

interesting is for for people doubting the story jeremy corbell and ross colthart found a bunch of

[1:31:35 - 1:31:43] ▶

getting on the bus or something that's right yeah yeah yeah i think they found a bunch george knapp also had

[1:31:52 - 1:31:58] ▶

basically they never made it for george talks about it in in the interviews we did with him and

[1:32:05 - 1:32:11] ▶

he's talked about it in the past and he says they all received the phone call they were all threatened

[1:32:11 - 1:32:17] ▶

the story you then have to not believe george knapp because why would george lie about that what's his

[1:32:24 - 1:32:32] ▶

what's the benefit here you know and somebody's gonna say well it's because he put his name attached

[1:32:32 - 1:32:37] ▶

to the bob story no not when that was happening he was still investigating the bob story so he said that

[1:32:37 - 1:32:44] ▶

i really want to put a lot of emphasis on because of all the haters out there is this happened when

[1:32:56 - 1:33:02] ▶

he came out it was in 1989 it was a different era it was a different time in the world oh yeah yeah so

[1:33:02 - 1:33:11] ▶

you know the people now that think that bob lazar is a grifter or what where i'm a grifter because i'm

[1:33:11 - 1:33:19] ▶

40 years ago and believe me i was not popular this was the most unpopular topic when it came out it was

[1:33:26 - 1:33:35] ▶

the guy that had died that you were replacing yeah they had an operating reactor so apparently which is

[1:34:20 - 1:34:28] ▶

also brings up all kinds of other questions to me um apparently the reactors and all the craft are

[1:34:29 - 1:34:34] ▶

exactly the same so that makes me think of a manufacturing facility yeah that's like a ford making an engine and

[1:34:34 - 1:34:43] ▶

that goes in you know a bunch of different models how can all these crafts have the same

[1:34:43 - 1:34:48] ▶

you know the same power system or propulsion system in them um anyway i don't want to go off on a tangent

[1:34:49 - 1:34:57] ▶

but he had a reactor so it was probably from some one of the other crafts and why they did this is beyond me

[1:34:57 - 1:35:05] ▶

they took it out to the nuclear test site and they physically cut into it while it was running under load

[1:35:05 - 1:35:14] ▶

was operating or extremely confident that they knew what was going on in the reactor where they could

[1:35:40 - 1:35:47] ▶

whatever they gleaned from it or even their suspicions at the beginning because barry and i were kind of

[1:35:56 - 1:36:01] ▶

starting from the beginning on the reactor uh so everything they had done previously was lost

[1:36:01 - 1:36:09] ▶

anyway you ever learn the guy's name or any details about do you does barry have a last name or yeah

[1:36:12 - 1:36:18] ▶

uh i never was never able to find it because i mean back in the time i was looking for him there was no

[1:36:55 - 1:37:00] ▶

difficult than it is now yeah and i know of one instance in which the name dennis mariani was

[1:37:06 - 1:37:11] ▶

wasn't with the program as far as keeping this from you know the entire world what was his background

[1:38:02 - 1:38:07] ▶

you know i'm sure it's a story where he threw the golf ball at the reactor and you know sometimes we'd

[1:38:23 - 1:38:30] ▶

acted like you know a human instead of a robot what happened when he threw the golf ball at the reactor

[1:38:36 - 1:38:43] ▶

he was showing me the field on it and he said check this out and took a golf ball and you know

[1:38:43 - 1:38:49] ▶

intending to hit the reactor and instead it bounced off the field and then hit a ceiling tile which

[1:38:49 - 1:38:55] ▶

dislodged it and made all the little particles you know come down and we knew dennis was going to be

[1:38:55 - 1:39:01] ▶

coming back in two minutes so it was you know red alert we had to you know grab the stools and go up

[1:39:01 - 1:39:07] ▶

i mean this is a remarkable detail around the reactor you have this sort of force field like

[1:39:21 - 1:39:26] ▶

thing this like repelling force yeah yeah once the uh a hemisphere on top of a plate you know about the

[1:39:26 - 1:39:33] ▶

once the hemisphere is put back on um if the emitter is in the right position the reactor will turn on

[1:39:41 - 1:39:49] ▶

you can't touch the reactor from that point i mean it and it it's somewhat elastic you know like if you

[1:39:57 - 1:40:04] ▶

have two light poles of a magnet pushing them together you get that it's the exact same feel but without

[1:40:04 - 1:40:09] ▶

move the reactor on the table and once you turn it on and you're pushing on the field the reactor doesn't

[1:40:17 - 1:40:26] ▶

slide so it's not transferring the force to the reactor it's pushing your hand away but so that's it's

[1:40:26 - 1:40:36] ▶

really interesting to me how did the reactor work this is all guess this is just all guesswork yes um

[1:40:36 - 1:40:45] ▶

it has a super heavy element in it which appeared to be 115 on the periodic chart

[1:40:46 - 1:40:52] ▶

uh there's a little tower in it and from x-rays we could see that there's a loop around the base plate

[1:40:53 - 1:41:01] ▶

an accelerator and that the tube that came up the side was an off-ramp essentially and that particle

[1:41:10 - 1:41:19] ▶

or whatever was being accelerated interacts with the 115 and somehow that produces the gravitational field

[1:41:19 - 1:41:26] ▶

then it becomes impossible there's no way you're getting past the next three inches you could probably

[1:42:13 - 1:42:18] ▶

point barry showed me he had one of the emitters it working he put a lit little kitchen candle right

[1:43:31 - 1:43:39] ▶

at the focal point and he powered up the the reactor and the flame stopped flickering it stood

[1:43:39 - 1:43:46] ▶

there frozen in space and time but i could see the light from the candle the flame was still visible

[1:43:46 - 1:43:54] ▶

also he removed the candle and then rotated the emitter i don't know if it was another direction

[1:43:54 - 1:44:02] ▶

or more of the same way but it made a little black ball in the air where no light was a sky escaping

[1:44:02 - 1:44:08] ▶

looking like a little black hole but no you could just tell there was no light at the focal point

[1:44:08 - 1:44:14] ▶

right in the air it was just a dark area so there it's affecting light but it wasn't in the candle test

[1:44:14 - 1:44:22] ▶

when bob mentioned this anomalous force coming from the craft's emitter i immediately racked my brain

[1:44:31 - 1:44:37] ▶

just interviewed the lead electrostatic scientist at nasa dr charles buehler who talks about something

[1:44:44 - 1:44:50] ▶

very similar okay where the heck is this energy coming from because if i was to stick this in

[1:44:50 - 1:44:55] ▶

space it would accelerate with the power off that's a problem

[1:44:55 - 1:45:00] ▶

you see there's a long lineage of people studying gravity control or anti-gravity in the united states

[1:45:03 - 1:45:09] ▶

no fuel no exhaust no propellant just electricity as the input converted directly into motion a new

[1:45:23 - 1:45:31] ▶

think that's insane and defies newton's laws and i'll spare you all of the corroborating research that

[1:45:39 - 1:45:44] ▶

i've dug up showing that brown made real breakthroughs in the world of anti-gravity

[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶

dr charles buehler at nasa has taken brown's experiments to the next level with modern instruments

[1:45:50 - 1:45:57] ▶

also getting millinewtons of thrust basically real propulsion with electricity as the sole input and

[1:46:16 - 1:46:22] ▶

you can't really argue with his authority to make these claims the man literally runs electrostatics at

[1:46:22 - 1:46:28] ▶

nasa he's the incoming president of the american electrostatic society and he's contributed two

[1:46:28 - 1:46:35] ▶

fundamental principles to the field of electrostatics that are now widely accepted so this is kind of an

[1:46:35 - 1:46:42] ▶

first of all hi charles hi bob this is a very exciting moment for me i'm a big fan now the thing about bob

[1:46:55 - 1:47:02] ▶

i'm sure you've seen the lifter ion motors and stuff along those lines how is it different from those a

[1:47:44 - 1:47:52] ▶

a few ways um the ion thrusters obviously use ions in air to give them momentum oscillation what's

[1:47:52 - 1:48:00] ▶

interesting about this force um even though it's sort of the same geometry can be used

[1:48:00 - 1:48:07] ▶

uh but at high vacuum you'll get the thrust but it's always in the opposite direction of the

[1:48:07 - 1:48:12] ▶

ion thrusters which is really cool because what happens is you have a sharp electrode in the ground

[1:48:12 - 1:48:16] ▶

you'll break down the gases either corona or some fold like that um in vacuum we can actually see

[1:48:21 - 1:48:28] ▶

uh these forces arise but they're always in the opposite direction of the ion wind which is really

[1:48:29 - 1:48:33] ▶

interesting that is very interesting the same direction as the rocket exhaust you never think

[1:48:33 - 1:48:38] ▶

difference wow yeah that well that's really interesting i mean it that the fact that it's in the

[1:48:42 - 1:48:48] ▶

hard vacuum and you're getting measurable thrust oh we have we've been doing that since 2020 so the

[1:48:54 - 1:49:01] ▶

playing around in the hundreds of micro newtons or millinuton ranges so i think the highest we've gotten is

[1:49:26 - 1:49:32] ▶

probably up to the 50 millinuton mark um but that's when we stack these together we don't learn a lot from

[1:49:32 - 1:49:39] ▶

understand the thrust density if you will of each thruster so we're trying to optimize each type um

[1:49:44 - 1:49:51] ▶

to test the mega structures physically how big are these thrusters oh they're not very big um they're

[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶

measure the currents we make sure that in many cases there's there is no current which is very odd

[1:50:21 - 1:50:26] ▶

yeah i would say isn't that interesting yeah i'd say turn the turn the power source off and it keeps going

[1:50:28 - 1:50:34] ▶

wait what yeah it is very annoying that in some cases when we trap the charge in there that's all

[1:50:34 - 1:50:41] ▶

you any more thrust but you can stack them and get increased thrust well the physically large one will

[1:50:48 - 1:50:53] ▶

but we're not learning anything from we want to learn you know what is the best geometry

[1:50:59 - 1:51:03] ▶

shape we want to optimize we know area is one of the ways that will be optimized later we'll sort

[1:51:03 - 1:51:08] ▶

of space but on ground test particles we're kind of fixed by the geometry of our chamber

[1:51:08 - 1:51:14] ▶

walk in it when that comes online in a few months then we can test much larger versions of it so the

[1:51:20 - 1:51:28] ▶

thrust does depend on the area it does depend on the volume it does depend on the voltages the

[1:51:28 - 1:51:33] ▶

typical things you would expect you know but you could try to optimize it as much as we can with the

[1:51:33 - 1:51:40] ▶

voltage are you using well when we started in 20 2016 it was at the towns and brown level 150 000

[1:51:46 - 1:51:54] ▶

the voltage range was you know the the thing causing the thrust but charles's belief is that that's sort

[1:52:09 - 1:52:16] ▶

exciting yeah i can't believe you're getting these results and i can't get past the 400 volts either

[1:52:40 - 1:52:47] ▶

if you increase the voltage you don't see any change in thrust or oh you'll get more thrust for

[1:52:47 - 1:52:53] ▶

have access to the higher fields anymore it's material properties that we have to deal with

[1:53:12 - 1:53:17] ▶

but but we like the two 300 volts it it gets rid of other nuances like uh corona wind or anything like

[1:53:17 - 1:53:26] ▶

that right right yeah all that stuff gets tossed out yeah you're not even ionizing the air no it's

[1:53:26 - 1:53:32] ▶

out right as soon as you drop the voltage down that low and you can i get you can get some cleaner data

[1:53:38 - 1:53:44] ▶

be significant you know the thing is the first thing i would i would point out there's something

[1:54:13 - 1:54:17] ▶

times and have done it for this long boy and you've adjusted all the you know potential parameters and fallouts to

[1:54:25 - 1:54:33] ▶

uh no i can't yeah i know yeah i you you got to assume there's that the thing's working but you

[1:54:33 - 1:54:42] ▶

also you mentioned dc voltage in the craft and that was yeah that's also a townsend brown that is high dc

[1:54:42 - 1:54:49] ▶

yeah it's not just high dc voltage i even mentioned it on uh you know joe rogan that i i think the material

[1:54:49 - 1:54:56] ▶

the craft is made from is an electric and so it always just like a a magnet always has a magnetic

[1:54:56 - 1:55:04] ▶

certainly something important were there high climb rates to the voltage likely you know what i mean like

[1:55:11 - 1:55:18] ▶

fascinating because it's literally all the towns and brown stuff it's like fast high dc voltage yeah

[1:55:25 - 1:55:29] ▶

like fast yeah you know well i wonder if that really applies to the craft more than i was giving

[1:55:29 - 1:55:35] ▶

making me wonder it could very well be again because of the high voltage on the craft and it's dc yeah

[1:55:39 - 1:55:46] ▶

and he might have been so far past this already but uh well the funny thing about brown is he was

[1:55:53 - 1:55:59] ▶

looking for a power source that was nuclear for like the rest of his career oh he figured out the

[1:55:59 - 1:56:04] ▶

electric avitics and then he called it the flame jet boy that would have been the guy to have there

[1:56:04 - 1:56:07] ▶

would be i just get in the way but um yeah he'd be the guy to have there and you were given some

[1:56:13 - 1:56:22] ▶

theories like there being two gravities gravity a and gravity b was that in the briefing documents

[1:56:22 - 1:56:28] ▶

were lab notes and these this was the direction they were going in at one time

[1:56:43 - 1:56:49] ▶

labeled as the strong nuclear force in mainstream physics and gravity a is the wave that you need

[1:57:08 - 1:57:13] ▶

texting about it yeah the uh the uh the excerpts from the government bible yeah original tape that

[1:57:32 - 1:57:38] ▶

you did and it's it's amazing so it's it sounds like this new the kind of gravity a is like basically

[1:57:38 - 1:57:45] ▶

the perimeter of the the atom or the what you're dealing with but so you have to scale again i'm just

[1:57:45 - 1:57:51] ▶

is almost the solution to what has been keeping physics stuck for so long yeah possibly quantize

[1:57:59 - 1:58:05] ▶

you ever heard that name i've heard the name but i don't know anything about him so he at the age of 19

[1:58:21 - 1:58:27] ▶

um became deaf and blind due to an explosion and he was a german and he ended up moving over to the us

[1:58:28 - 1:58:36] ▶

and working for lockheed martin in the 50s and was renowned as just a total genius and he had a really

[1:58:36 - 1:58:42] ▶

gravity g is the tensor summation of three gravitational components g g which g big g little g which is

[1:59:01 - 1:59:09] ▶

scalar gravity propagated by the graviton g by the graviton so he's going with gravitons for that okay g gp

[1:59:09 - 1:59:17] ▶

dark energy slash matter propagated by the gravity gravito photon and gq vacuum field a repulsive force

[1:59:17 - 1:59:24] ▶

propagated by the quintessence particle so in addition to the standard four forces gravity electromagnetism strong

[1:59:24 - 1:59:31] ▶

very mysterious circumstances and she apparently was at the end of her life kept talking about a sixth

[1:59:52 - 1:59:57] ▶

force that was like a sixth force six force yeah the sixth force is anti-gravity that's what my group has a

[1:59:57 - 2:00:03] ▶

itself like it froze time yeah but if it froze time how come the photons were still coming out of it

[2:01:03 - 2:01:11] ▶

confine it still the photons are flying out yeah or maybe and and if you say well it doesn't affect

[2:01:20 - 2:01:26] ▶

photons how come it made the black little ball so what do you what so have you where do you think

[2:01:26 - 2:01:32] ▶

the only thing we know that does this is gravity so we're calling it a gravity generator

[2:01:48 - 2:01:54] ▶

yeah oh it's so interesting i mean don't forget that in the film we did not include the mechanical

[2:02:11 - 2:02:18] ▶

watch experiment that was also conducted in the lab so there was the candle the black ball and the

[2:02:18 - 2:02:24] ▶

mechanical watch we didn't put it in there just because we wanted to shorten the film but there's

[2:02:24 - 2:02:30] ▶

yeah i mean that's another indicator where bob said just like that i mean it's kind of similar to the

[2:02:35 - 2:02:43] ▶

right which would be that would be really weird well it's so weird especially given all the forms of

[2:03:04 - 2:03:11] ▶

you know your your wife at the time no anybody you told gene huff yeah okay i told john lear too yeah and

[2:03:24 - 2:03:32] ▶

you even brought them to yeah oh yeah to see the test yeah because i had the test flight schedule

[2:03:32 - 2:03:38] ▶

the super government uh secret test site and just a few minutes ago we saw one of the government uh

[2:03:53 - 2:03:58] ▶

15 seconds and saw for myself that in fact it was a disc um there there isn't much to see with the camera

[2:04:12 - 2:04:19] ▶

the ufo with gene huff and john lear and you you kind of you know took them what was it to the little

[2:04:35 - 2:04:42] ▶

mesa was a mesa or no uh it was right outside it was uh yeah before you know before you get to the black

[2:04:42 - 2:04:51] ▶

mailbox you know the reason anybody knew about the black mailbox everybody wanted to know where the

[2:04:51 - 2:04:57] ▶

road was that we turned down when you come up the highway it's this first dirt road you go down but

[2:04:57 - 2:05:03] ▶

mailbox so i just said it's around the black mailbox yeah and that just got repeated and everybody thought

[2:05:09 - 2:05:17] ▶

when all you guys went up there and you saw the ufo fly and i'm sure they were just totally shocked

[2:05:22 - 2:05:28] ▶

were you allowed back at s4 after that yeah that well the yeah the first time they didn't know we were

[2:05:29 - 2:05:35] ▶

out there oh they didn't know yeah yeah we only got caught the last time okay so they get and then i

[2:05:35 - 2:05:41] ▶

would never have let me back so after the last time you weren't let back there right that was it

[2:05:41 - 2:05:47] ▶

of a sudden they disappear you know i'm working out at the site there and eventually i told him

[2:06:14 - 2:06:19] ▶

think they were following you i don't know it might just be normal security did you take anything from the lab

[2:06:32 - 2:06:38] ▶

gave the files on you to george knapp right a klas is that how it went down or gave the files on me or

[2:08:35 - 2:08:44] ▶

gave the like um said like you know hey yeah i mean yeah john lear is the one that contacted george

[2:08:44 - 2:08:53] ▶

going rogue on his own or did you say hey can you contact you know george or somebody in the local

[2:08:59 - 2:09:05] ▶

you gotta get the information out publicly because that's the only way that's the only

[2:09:21 - 2:09:26] ▶

he had crazy beliefs crazy believe you know i mean some of the stuff was so ridiculous you know i would

[2:09:58 - 2:10:06] ▶

you didn't believe the sun was hot yeah he said there were people living in the sun there so there's

[2:10:11 - 2:10:15] ▶

no one living in the sun john and um said yeah they they built the moon on jupiter and uh that's

[2:10:15 - 2:10:23] ▶

appraiser and uh at the time john was looking to get a loan on his house and um he had been on

[2:10:38 - 2:10:48] ▶

george knapp had a show on the record like after the news and john lear had been on there back when he

[2:10:50 - 2:10:56] ▶

you know tons of files and had lots of great contacts the only problem with john was

[2:11:10 - 2:11:17] ▶

i know jello thinks and he'll go all right and he'll put them in the same file and they have the

[2:11:30 - 2:11:36] ▶

the appraisal on his house and i went with gene yeah to you know help him measure it and uh you

[2:12:00 - 2:12:07] ▶

created the first business airliner in the u.s the learjet yeah bill lear aviation yeah bill lear and

[2:12:13 - 2:12:20] ▶

invented the autopilot invented the eight-track tape i mean he's ready a direction finder yeah yeah

[2:12:20 - 2:12:25] ▶

angry at his kid yeah yeah completely removed him from the will maybe um apple fell far from the tree

[2:12:48 - 2:12:55] ▶

uh was super into ufos before you got the job at uh area 51 s4 like i think he had a ufo blog

[2:13:18 - 2:13:25] ▶

with this oh it did oh it did they absolutely asked me about oh they asked you about the first day okay

[2:13:33 - 2:13:38] ▶

okay yeah what's your relationship with john in fact that might have been the first question really

[2:13:38 - 2:13:45] ▶

yeah at eg and g when i sat down that's that yeah it's the first thing they mentioned and what did

[2:13:45 - 2:13:49] ▶

some stuff yeah he's met him and yeah he's uh it's fascinating and i mean john would just do the

[2:13:58 - 2:14:06] ▶

the airport wear a suit and come on so he'd be a pilot and you know the pilot of the craft and i'd

[2:14:30 - 2:14:37] ▶

come on he said just come on the tarmac and tell this guy and you know walk up in the plane and he'd

[2:14:37 - 2:14:42] ▶

tell the co-pilot and engineer hey this guy's from the faa so he's just going to be observing us and

[2:14:42 - 2:14:47] ▶

taking it so i take the jump seat behind the you know pilot and just fly with john did he talk to you

[2:14:47 - 2:14:54] ▶

about ufos before you got the job at s4 area 51 no it didn't talk to me about him but i mean he spoke

[2:14:54 - 2:15:01] ▶

about them did he ever yeah i mean he used to tell me there are aliens living in the mountains alongside

[2:15:01 - 2:15:06] ▶

uh you know i think it's i-95 or something right the highway he said yeah there's a billion of them

[2:15:07 - 2:15:13] ▶

i don't recall okay i think i think when i described i think when i described the craft

[2:15:21 - 2:15:30] ▶

to him and drew it i think he brought out the billy meyer book and he said i think that's right for in

[2:15:30 - 2:15:36] ▶

fact it is that's where i first saw it so we saw uh we showed him the billy meyers tape i said yeah

[2:15:36 - 2:15:41] ▶

that's that's not like the craft that's the craft that's so interesting so yeah he kind of helped

[2:15:41 - 2:15:47] ▶

he's like snooping around and taking photos of like f-117s and he even leaks the details of the f-117 to

[2:16:09 - 2:16:17] ▶

george knapp but then he still like knows all the security guards there so i'm like what's his what's

[2:16:17 - 2:16:23] ▶

his deal you know i mean i had been out at you know but before the s4 thing um you know out in the

[2:16:23 - 2:16:30] ▶

desert in the middle of the night with binoculars and stuff trying outside uh tonopah yeah you know

[2:16:30 - 2:16:35] ▶

you know fighters taking off from nellis air force base because you could get right up to the fence

[2:16:46 - 2:16:51] ▶

and the memory lapses it caused now what there's no memory no memory lapses okay it's you know

[2:17:55 - 2:18:03] ▶

apparently people had severe reactions yeah to some of the stuff just touching the craft

[2:18:13 - 2:18:18] ▶

the one thing i have trouble with is the mit thing because that's the other thing circulating

[2:18:26 - 2:18:30] ▶

you blew the whistle on area 51 like why wasn't there this like nationwide directive at all of the

[2:19:19 - 2:19:24] ▶

came out there rented a car drove up and uh i still knew all the guards and stuff like that so

[2:19:32 - 2:19:39] ▶

so much higher security now i mean it was so nonchalant back then and we just wrote right into the

[2:19:50 - 2:19:57] ▶

the experimental areas came over here is it george this is my desk were you surprised was it part of

[2:19:57 - 2:20:02] ▶

they were so concerned about that i think they called it the tiger team came in to test security

[2:20:21 - 2:20:28] ▶

it was not even a problem when did you start united nuclear nine 99 2000 did you ever work with the

[2:20:45 - 2:20:55] ▶

you know they they train uh department of homeland security fbi i mean we we sell them stuff all the time

[2:21:01 - 2:21:10] ▶

or sell them you know radioactive sources so they can go hide something in a warehouse and give the

[2:21:15 - 2:21:22] ▶

contract work with you i don't know i don't know you know but one hand doesn't know what the other

[2:21:34 - 2:21:41] ▶

is doing in the government yeah yeah it's it's kind of a mess yeah yeah yeah no and it's uh i mean

[2:21:41 - 2:21:46] ▶

in fact part of you know united nuclear when it was just beginning um some of the stuff we're selling

[2:21:46 - 2:21:52] ▶

or stuff like that so went down to the fbi and reviewed everything with them and they went no you can

[2:21:58 - 2:22:06] ▶

that's cool went down to the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms no we're we're good you

[2:22:06 - 2:22:10] ▶

know and the postal service no everything's good all right great we're gonna go selling it and then um

[2:22:10 - 2:22:17] ▶

you know rated by the consumer product safety commission they come in with a swat team with

[2:22:17 - 2:22:22] ▶

with everybody i didn't check with us so don't you guys talk so yeah one hand has no idea what the

[2:22:29 - 2:22:36] ▶

other is doing when it comes to the government yeah no i believe that um is there any part of you that

[2:22:36 - 2:22:41] ▶

and you know why go through the complicated why i mean why make it complicated and make me do it

[2:22:55 - 2:23:01] ▶

right why not just do it yourself put out the high level framework and say yeah this whole complicated

[2:23:01 - 2:23:07] ▶

impossible to parse what the hell is going on with that guy look i have told i have heard john lear tell my

[2:23:18 - 2:23:25] ▶

inserts himself in there in a prominent position you know well i got bob you know to get the job to here

[2:23:33 - 2:23:39] ▶

know mj obviously in the ufo lore would be like the elite you know kind of committee that governs

[2:23:55 - 2:24:00] ▶

this whole topic came to me and he said we got to get bob on the job because we know that we can hide

[2:24:00 - 2:24:06] ▶

the head of mj12 is a guy named admiral mike mcclellan he wanted to get some of the information out

[2:24:24 - 2:24:32] ▶

because he didn't he didn't want to uh he thought that some of this information should be out in the

[2:24:32 - 2:24:37] ▶

public we don't need to keep all this secrecy so he decided trying to figure out a way to get it to the

[2:24:37 - 2:24:43] ▶

instantly discredit him and then i so i thought about that for a while and i was like what the what is

[2:25:00 - 2:25:05] ▶

have i that's interesting that you've heard it yeah i i have definitely heard the name it could

[2:25:11 - 2:25:16] ▶

have come from john lear but um i don't know i mean that the thing is some of the stuff he's saying

[2:25:16 - 2:25:22] ▶

absolutely can be true or absolutely cannot totally i don't know but i mean you know i love the guy he's

[2:25:22 - 2:25:29] ▶

what's accurate and what's not decoding the voynich manuscript or something yeah yeah but um yeah no he's

[2:25:49 - 2:25:56] ▶

involved there and he was a navy admiral at the time so i think about that and i'm like i wonder

[2:26:31 - 2:26:35] ▶

if mike mcconnell was somewhat involved when you came out as dennis was that a shot across the bow

[2:26:35 - 2:26:41] ▶

might have some theories here too why do you think dennis wanted to meet up with you at the end of this

[2:27:12 - 2:27:20] ▶

whole saga and then you get up with him at the casino and then you're speaking to him and gene

[2:27:20 - 2:27:26] ▶

to go out there just to get me away from the house i i really don't know because you got back to the

[2:27:46 - 2:27:52] ▶

the fact that gene huff was there joe was also there yeah yeah but yeah we were all we all had

[2:28:23 - 2:28:29] ▶

blonde you know military looking guy and bob's talking to him the guy's not even looking at him

[2:28:35 - 2:28:40] ▶

pick out a guy out of nowhere and starts talking if the guy was a nobody he would have turned around

[2:28:47 - 2:28:53] ▶

don't know what the deal is with dennis we both turned around and he was gone yeah yeah yeah yeah

[2:29:12 - 2:29:17] ▶

it there's a thousand but there's no direction to go in i mean that was so striking from the

[2:29:35 - 2:29:42] ▶

documentaries they put a your gun was set up in your own car and the doors were open in the in the

[2:29:42 - 2:29:48] ▶

and i mean we would lock it and test the door and because it had happened before and go all right

[2:29:54 - 2:30:00] ▶

into the gym we come back out everything's open did you was there ever a moment where you were like

[2:30:07 - 2:30:12] ▶

the car see if there's something wired in there or a bomb i mean we were even afraid the only thing that

[2:30:21 - 2:30:26] ▶

wasn't open um i think was the hood where the engine was so we were afraid to open that you know and

[2:30:26 - 2:30:36] ▶

finally did but looked over the car but yeah i was afraid there was a bomb on there or somebody wired

[2:30:37 - 2:30:43] ▶

with bob all the time and we were scared that something was going to blow up and he says i was

[2:31:05 - 2:31:10] ▶

start the car because he was like it i'm gonna do it but you could sense that even from mario's

[2:31:16 - 2:31:23] ▶

was causing a lot of worry not just for you but for mario as well because like what the hell is going

[2:31:31 - 2:31:37] ▶

on the doors are unlocked again and you know why are they doing this so clearly you think something's

[2:31:37 - 2:31:43] ▶

that was it was happening according to to those guys to these guys did you get the sense that there

[2:31:51 - 2:31:57] ▶

were maybe mob ties like there was some you know they talk about the ufo legacy program sometimes like

[2:31:57 - 2:32:04] ▶

it's a cartel or like a mafia that exists outside of the state did you get this and obviously you're

[2:32:04 - 2:32:11] ▶

that that sense not that it was the mob per se yeah but it was like these guys were disconnected from

[2:32:16 - 2:32:24] ▶

the government yeah they were like their own yeah they were their own cabal you kind of get that but

[2:32:24 - 2:32:30] ▶

liddy do you know that is that's like yeah i i know the name i don't remember who he is he's this fbi

[2:32:37 - 2:32:41] ▶

the sense that that whole world like the the people were the mormons who were around howard hughes and

[2:32:48 - 2:32:53] ▶

is the vibe yeah yeah yeah yeah we're doing our thing yeah yeah is undeniable yeah yeah yeah yeah

[2:33:05 - 2:33:14] ▶

i talk when i hear about all these government organizations and government secrets and the

[2:33:27 - 2:33:32] ▶

should also pay attention to what organized crime did back then back in the 60s the 70s the 80s the 90s

[2:33:37 - 2:33:46] ▶

for somebody who's trying to keep a secret to have ties with with let's say the mob so that if ever

[2:34:07 - 2:34:15] ▶

look at yeah they weren't they weren't taking the legal angle at all no no which is really if you want to

[2:34:43 - 2:34:49] ▶

enforce something like that's that's the way you yeah do it uh which is pretty wild i mean you see

[2:34:49 - 2:34:55] ▶

this stuff with the epstein thing too where it's just they're just clearly is this distributed kind

[2:34:55 - 2:35:00] ▶

this is at the end of his life yeah and he goes why did you put uh zoro ranch where you put it and

[2:35:18 - 2:35:24] ▶

kind of aging out and i wanted to speak with them los alamos which was the high energy lab up in new

[2:35:31 - 2:35:38] ▶

because the scientists were going to be they cut the funding for high energy physics and you're

[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶

realize you know bill richardson was kind of in with the clintons and he was the secretary of energy

[2:35:53 - 2:35:57] ▶

there's another email where he said i i killed ponds back in the day or whatever and he's talking about

[2:36:05 - 2:36:10] ▶

dealing with cold fusion then he's he's hanging out at harvard with the math department none of that

[2:36:16 - 2:36:20] ▶

all the time i lived really close to it when i lived in new mexico yeah and uh they always called

[2:36:25 - 2:36:30] ▶

it the victoria's secret ranch because there were models there yeah everyone knew that is the victoria's

[2:36:30 - 2:36:35] ▶

secret ranch so you would drive by epstein's ranch and they would call it the victoria's

[2:36:35 - 2:36:39] ▶

secret i mean not right by it but as you drive it on the road you can see it up on that yeah we know

[2:36:39 - 2:36:45] ▶

why they called it that's because he was close with les wexner who was the ceo and founder of victoria's

[2:36:45 - 2:36:50] ▶

what do you do because like it's also for the people that are like disbelieve your stuff it's like

[2:37:12 - 2:37:18] ▶

it's not just one guy yeah it's just not it's not i mean he might have been the ringleader but it's uh

[2:37:39 - 2:37:45] ▶

was obsessed with the casimir effect and he would hold these oh he was oh yeah yeah yeah he would he

[2:37:50 - 2:37:55] ▶

would hold these gravity conferences and then the very fact that he's saying do you know that for a

[2:37:55 - 2:38:00] ▶

fact yeah this is all in the emails this is all a fact and yeah there's an old colleague of mine eric

[2:38:00 - 2:38:05] ▶

like how is epstein so tied in with the harvard math department like you think it was just his

[2:38:31 - 2:38:35] ▶

of the vibration of cesium atoms and you're like how who's giving you this stuff you know and then

[2:38:59 - 2:39:04] ▶

he's sort of like mining people for the info and it's weird i mean did he he said that he said that yeah

[2:39:04 - 2:39:13] ▶

it's an anomaly it's strange yeah like like it's we can't it's the most used noun in the english language

[2:39:31 - 2:39:38] ▶

but we can only define it with respect to the movement of macroscopic bodies or to oscillations

[2:39:39 - 2:39:45] ▶

fishbowl where like the fish are trying to even describe what water is but they don't they can't

[2:39:52 - 2:39:57] ▶

help explain some of the ufo stuff yeah i think there's there's definitely something there yeah

[2:40:15 - 2:40:22] ▶

that yeah i think so too yeah i mean the um cosmic red the other thing that this guy burkhard heim

[2:40:32 - 2:40:40] ▶

says is that the cosmic red shift is the repulsive form of gravity and if you look at dark energy

[2:40:40 - 2:40:46] ▶

you could literally just look it up it's like this it's not one of the four fundamental forces but

[2:40:47 - 2:40:51] ▶

it's just you know the universe is inflating energy really exists right yeah yeah that's and dark matter

[2:40:51 - 2:40:58] ▶

he's yeah back on the graviton bandwagon well gravitons are interesting because as early as the 50s you know

[2:41:14 - 2:41:21] ▶

bunch of people saying we're gonna be gravity it's right around the bend there's a guy named george

[2:41:26 - 2:41:30] ▶

you know they would say like it was it's going to take us the time that it took to build the atom

[2:41:45 - 2:41:49] ▶

physicists at the time from princeton were talking about gravitons and they were like we have a very

[2:41:54 - 2:41:59] ▶

clear theory of gravitons and we know how to do this and the two things that come up for gravity where

[2:41:59 - 2:42:05] ▶

there's a lot of smoke but no fire is the thing we just talked about with bueller extremely high

[2:42:05 - 2:42:10] ▶

electric field differentials creating thrust and then the second thing is very fast rotating spinning

[2:42:10 - 2:42:16] ▶

about that there's another force and it's not gravity and what is the if you were to characterize

[2:42:41 - 2:42:49] ▶

the photons and what what's what does this force do that's different what is it what does it look like

[2:42:55 - 2:43:02] ▶

well it's a it's a repelling force but i i think it's something that works closer to the way you would

[2:43:03 - 2:43:12] ▶

and i think it it also affects the flow of time exactly like gravity does i think it affects light

[2:43:25 - 2:43:33] ▶

it does some of the some of the observations you would have with gravity would also overlap in this

[2:43:33 - 2:43:41] ▶

okay okay fine fine um is there anything uh kind of high level that you can say as far as your the goal of

[2:44:04 - 2:44:13] ▶

your research you know post the experience like what just duplicate anything just to duplicate

[2:44:13 - 2:44:19] ▶

that's why i'm 100 confident yeah the thing is just to scale stuff up okay what do you hope your

[2:44:33 - 2:44:39] ▶

that are going to come on look what's happening all the people that came out since then you know there's

[2:44:59 - 2:45:05] ▶

to be bigger more important ones that you just aren't going to look back to the 80s and think you're

[2:45:14 - 2:45:20] ▶

just going to focus on those guys well i would put it the invert i would say if you have like a an army

[2:45:20 - 2:45:25] ▶

of people coming out after you the fact that you're the first makes it even more interesting i think well

[2:45:25 - 2:45:31] ▶

and you saw one hanging up against the wall yeah it was sitting on the wall and i had there's actually

[2:46:02 - 2:46:08] ▶

an error in the movie it has one hole in in the room not two um but yeah there was just a hole with

[2:46:08 - 2:46:16] ▶

it bent out clearly bent out as if it was shot from the bottom why do you think oh it looked like it was

[2:46:16 - 2:46:22] ▶

down or anything or well that was that was the other directive of the project it was directed energy

[2:46:47 - 2:46:54] ▶

well yeah it depends what you're talking about there's i mean our directive was duplicate the

[2:46:56 - 2:47:03] ▶

propulsion system at any cost is directive one and directive two was be able to disable the system

[2:47:03 - 2:47:12] ▶

energy with electromagnetic pull okay i think the only thing i ever heard prior to that was stories

[2:47:37 - 2:47:44] ▶

about the roswell craft getting hit by lightning and crashing or something i think it's the only

[2:47:44 - 2:47:49] ▶

stories you lend credence to i don't know much about the the roswell crash other than you know what i've

[2:47:54 - 2:48:02] ▶

know that the roswell uh crash was not one crap it was it was not in one place only though it might

[2:48:07 - 2:48:16] ▶

have been a round of two yeah yeah i i really think it was there was something that happened in the air

[2:48:16 - 2:48:22] ▶

and there's like debris that was scattered all over mac brazzles ranch and then there was the actual

[2:48:23 - 2:48:30] ▶

pod with the beings that was crashed i think it was like two miles away where the hikers found it with

[2:48:30 - 2:48:36] ▶

the kids that were hiking and so clearly it was two different places and the bamboo the the pieces that

[2:48:36 - 2:48:43] ▶

looked like bamboo with the the writing writing on it that was at mac brazzle with the the memory metal

[2:48:43 - 2:48:51] ▶

and then the pod the only information we have of that is the bodies and one of them was already

[2:48:51 - 2:48:57] ▶

being eaten by some uh animals no way yeah the body's being eaten one of them one of them from

[2:48:57 - 2:49:03] ▶

what i remember reading and at the time there's one of them was obviously dead and it was decaying

[2:49:03 - 2:49:10] ▶

like there was an it was clearly some animals that got to it whoa so but i hadn't heard that but the

[2:49:10 - 2:49:17] ▶

only i would the only thing i remember about that was jesse marcel was the yes military yeah right and um

[2:49:17 - 2:49:24] ▶

um he said when you know they came to take pictures or the pictures they took he said

[2:49:24 - 2:49:31] ▶

that wasn't the stuff that we found whoa what general ram rammy yeah yeah he said yeah they

[2:49:31 - 2:49:37] ▶

replaced it with he said that's not what we found well that's the guy and there's that iconic photo

[2:49:37 - 2:49:42] ▶

and it's him with this like tinfoil-y weather balloon thing yeah yeah he claims that the material was

[2:49:42 - 2:49:47] ▶

right off to the side of the frame it's so he said yeah that's that's not the stuff and his son who's a

[2:49:47 - 2:49:53] ▶

air force flight surgeon said that he took the material home and he played with the material yeah

[2:49:53 - 2:49:58] ▶

on the crazy on the kitchen table with his wife yeah and here's what's where stuff gets even crazier

[2:49:58 - 2:50:03] ▶

wright patterson which is where the wreckage the roswell wreckage was rumored to be taken

[2:50:10 - 2:50:14] ▶

classified essentially showed up in a navy lab in the 60s yeah and that's what jesse marcel describes the

[2:50:30 - 2:50:37] ▶

just actually interviewed yeah it's one of the i mean you can take that metal and flex it a million

[2:51:00 - 2:51:08] ▶

saying that he helped dole out a lot of this material and it made it into the civil sector because of his

[2:51:22 - 2:51:28] ▶

and so you have this contract from 49 nobody knew what nitinol was night and all was and then in the

[2:51:35 - 2:51:42] ▶

any of that and i just interviewed a guy who was a witness actually of the virginia crash in in the 1990s

[2:51:48 - 2:51:55] ▶

uh 1996 uh in brazil and he says the same thing he says he held the material in his hands and it went

[2:51:55 - 2:52:01] ▶

experience anything like that with the material with material that would go back into its original

[2:52:06 - 2:52:10] ▶

autopsy right yeah if in fact that was true do you think it was part of the the briefing what did what did the

[2:52:42 - 2:52:49] ▶

photos look like i guess if you want to call it a gray something small it had a t cut in the chest and

[2:52:49 - 2:52:59] ▶

there was one single organ removed from the chest was that kind of a visceral experience for you is that

[2:52:59 - 2:53:08] ▶

there were rumors that the program was going to maybe move to indonesia or southeast asia when you

[2:53:25 - 2:53:31] ▶

were leaving no no they there were they were anxious to move the project out of there completely

[2:53:31 - 2:53:38] ▶

mm-hmm and you know ideally they said they would have loved to go out to the south pacific maybe

[2:53:38 - 2:53:44] ▶

quadulant island or something but they said the expenses would have been so great it's just impossible

[2:53:44 - 2:53:49] ▶

think that the program is completely out of area 51 and in some foreign place now yeah i don't i don't

[2:53:56 - 2:54:04] ▶

say it was just me what tech but it was the um god what the hell was it that we were using oh atomic

[2:54:31 - 2:54:41] ▶

absorption spectroscopy atomic absorption spectroscopy yeah and you did that yeah yeah i mean we had the

[2:54:41 - 2:54:48] ▶

more familiar with the equipment but um and you but you don't know the exact isotope

[2:54:55 - 2:55:01] ▶

forgot the yeah i have i have no idea oh man because that would be that yeah i know it would

[2:55:07 - 2:55:12] ▶

right right right so it doesn't matter anyway yeah i mean but you know the lab in darmstadt germany

[2:55:24 - 2:55:29] ▶

it's not like you know the way we try to synthesize um you know new elements is you know taking ions and

[2:55:44 - 2:55:52] ▶

we're gonna make a specific isotope and make it all stick together it's just like you know it's the old

[2:55:57 - 2:56:04] ▶

smashing the swiss watch against a concrete wall oh look what came out you know that's it if you

[2:56:04 - 2:56:09] ▶

couldn't because you don't have i can't yeah you need the equipment i mean you need the equipment like

[2:56:14 - 2:56:21] ▶

have the stable isotope at home or you do or maybe well i don't have it at my house okay but that's what

[2:56:26 - 2:56:34] ▶

recording yeah but no um so no okay okay okay yeah but then can't but then can you figure out the isotope

[2:56:41 - 2:56:52] ▶

physicists on the program but you talk about theoretical physicists on site at s4 oh for sure

[2:57:31 - 2:57:37] ▶

keeps leading back to the same place to put it bluntly bob's work at s4 looks a whole lot like all

[2:58:16 - 2:58:24] ▶

of the documented knowledge we have on anti-gravity experiments done in the last 100 years now again

[2:58:24 - 2:58:30] ▶

these claims don't lie in the realm of conventional proven science but while there's no proverbial fire

[2:58:30 - 2:58:37] ▶

there is a whole lot of smoke around them i'm talking not only of the experiments of townsend brown

[2:58:37 - 2:58:43] ▶

matters we'll break down the science as clearly as we can it starts with something called a k factor

[2:58:58 - 2:59:05] ▶

fields now this has important implications for historical anti-gravity experiments you see the higher

[2:59:11 - 2:59:17] ▶

the k factor the more thrust or propulsion you see in townsend brown's capacitor experiments brown spent

[2:59:17 - 2:59:24] ▶

his career searching for high k materials that could amplify the effect he'd discovered bismuth is one of

[2:59:24 - 2:59:30] ▶

them and it's often mentioned in the context of his anti-gravity work there's even an interview from this

[2:59:30 - 2:59:36] ▶

outfit where they were studying sort of the most exotic propulsion modalities and he says in this

[2:59:44 - 2:59:48] ▶

interview with the american institute of physics there's a guy named townsend who claimed to have

[2:59:48 - 2:59:54] ▶

anti-gravity experiments comes up in the ufo reverse engineering program go figure but it gets weirder

[3:00:01 - 3:00:08] ▶

bismuth and element 115 muscovium share the same number of valence electrons valence electrons are

[3:00:08 - 3:00:16] ▶

the electrons in the outermost shell of an atom the ones that determine how an element bonds reacts

[3:00:16 - 3:00:22] ▶

and behaves chemically bismuth has five muscovium or element 115 has five they sit in the same column

[3:00:22 - 3:00:31] ▶

of the periodic table group 15 which means they have essentially the same chemical personality the same

[3:00:31 - 3:00:37] ▶

bonding geometry the same family of crystal structures the same tendency to form the layered compounds

[3:00:37 - 3:00:44] ▶

that produce the most exotic quantum behavior known to material science lazar described element 115 as the

[3:00:44 - 3:00:51] ▶

fuel source for the craft's propulsion system mind you this was in 1989 before element 115 had ever been

[3:00:51 - 3:00:59] ▶

element the same chemical family as bismuth and bismuth is basically the most electromagnetically

[3:01:07 - 3:01:13] ▶

bizarre stable element on earth that's either the most chemically literate lucky guess in history

[3:01:13 - 3:01:19] ▶

or it isn't a guess at all now here's where the science gets genuinely strange bismuth is one of the

[3:01:19 - 3:01:25] ▶

most unusual elements on the periodic table most high k materials are passive they sit there holding charge and do

[3:01:25 - 3:01:33] ▶

attracted the way iron pushes towards a magnet it pushes away this property is called diamagnetism and

[3:01:41 - 3:01:49] ▶

inexplicably more the reason lives inside the atom itself every electron does two things simultaneously

[3:01:56 - 3:02:06] ▶

it orbits the nucleus like a planet around a star and it spins on its own axis like a tiny top in lighter

[3:02:06 - 3:02:14] ▶

elements these two motions barely register each other but bismuth sits near the bottom of the periodic

[3:02:14 - 3:02:20] ▶

table at element 83 one of the heaviest stable elements that exists and in super heavy elements

[3:02:20 - 3:02:27] ▶

something extraordinary happens the electrons in the outer shell move so fast that they enter what

[3:02:27 - 3:02:33] ▶

physicists call the relativistic regime they're traveling at a meaningful fraction of the speed of

[3:02:33 - 3:02:39] ▶

light and when something moves that fast the universe starts playing by different rules at those speeds

[3:02:39 - 3:02:46] ▶

generating an opposing field in response to anything applied to them from the outside so that's why

[3:03:16 - 3:03:22] ▶

bismuth has anomalous diamagnetism the electrons aren't just passive they're pushing back the most

[3:03:22 - 3:03:29] ▶

amazing thing is leaning into it putting all your force on that nothing moves at all and when the reactor's

[3:03:29 - 3:03:37] ▶

protected quantum states these are electron states so geometrically locked into the structure of the

[3:03:49 - 3:03:56] ▶

by the shape of reality itself element 115 with the same five outer electrons as bismuth would have

[3:04:03 - 3:04:11] ▶

be the exact crystal family that bismuth based topological insulators already prefer same column same

[3:04:23 - 3:04:31] ▶

electrons the dial just turned up to a level we've never engineered

[3:04:31 - 3:04:35] ▶

or a force that bends space-time well here's where the chemistry ends and something bigger begins

[3:04:47 - 3:04:53] ▶

in einstein's general relativity energy and momentum in all forms including the energy stored in fast

[3:04:54 - 3:05:01] ▶

spinning relativistic electrons technically curves spacetime every electron is in the most

[3:05:01 - 3:05:08] ▶

literal physical sense warping the fabric of the universe around it

[3:05:08 - 3:05:12] ▶

group of serious physicists began asking dangerous questions in the 1990s what if instead of spinning

[3:05:27 - 3:05:34] ▶

into a single coherent state all pointing in the same direction all pushing together this was the life's

[3:05:41 - 3:05:49] ▶

in gravito magnetic theory lee was a woman who eventually left her position at the university

[3:05:57 - 3:06:03] ▶

vanished from public view and the chair of her department at university of alabama huntsville larry

[3:06:09 - 3:06:15] ▶

collective quantum state the gravitomagnetic effect of those electrons normally washed away by thermal chaos

[3:06:28 - 3:06:36] ▶

engine in a laboratory let's compare that with bob lazar's work on ufos in the 80s years before ning lee's

[3:06:43 - 3:06:50] ▶

work ever became public lazar described three cylindrical emitters at the base of a craft the

[3:06:50 - 3:06:56] ▶

emitters at the base of lazar's craft didn't produce thrust in the traditional sense they didn't push

[3:06:56 - 3:07:02] ▶

against air or expel mass they generated a directed alteration of the gravitational field itself that the

[3:07:02 - 3:07:10] ▶

craft would then just fall into not propulsion geometry the craft didn't move through space it literally

[3:07:10 - 3:07:18] ▶

using completely different source material arriving at exactly the same place years later when the craft is

[3:07:38 - 3:07:45] ▶

in operation there is a high voltage detectable on on the skin of the craft and then there's the hull of

[3:07:45 - 3:07:52] ▶

the craft lazar said that he believed the craft's whole material was an electorate basically a material

[3:07:52 - 3:07:58] ▶

that permanently stores an electric field the electrical equivalent of a permanent magnet i think the

[3:07:58 - 3:08:04] ▶

material the craft is made from is an electric and so it always just like a a magnet always has a magnetic

[3:08:04 - 3:08:13] ▶

certainly something important again bismuth titanate is one of the finest electric materials known used in

[3:08:18 - 3:08:26] ▶

and respond to both electric and magnetic stimuli simultaneously the material that checks every

[3:08:38 - 3:08:45] ▶

single box is bismuth ferrite that's right again with the bismuth it's a material that is simultaneously

[3:08:45 - 3:08:52] ▶

ferroelectric and magnetic where the two properties talk to each other where you can control one with the

[3:08:52 - 3:08:59] ▶

other no other readily available material sits at the intersection of diamagnetism topological insulator

[3:08:59 - 3:09:06] ▶

bismuth sits right at the edge of where relativistic electron behavior begins to dominate everything

[3:09:21 - 3:09:27] ▶

by the time you get to muscovium you might have full-fledged space-time engineering and then what's

[3:09:27 - 3:09:38] ▶

just don't find it doesn't make any sense from like and then it also the thing was found alongside

[3:09:52 - 3:09:58] ▶

of like an observed anomaly in the sky in a crash and it was like in the 50s or 60s like one of one of

[3:09:58 - 3:10:04] ▶

which was literally a beach in brazil uh ubatuba and the similarity between brown and bueller's

[3:10:04 - 3:10:11] ▶

of high climb rates of the voltage so that the voltage would there'd be a steep climb rate where

[3:10:18 - 3:10:23] ▶

it would you know increase very very sharply the micro sizing waveguides for terahertz you could have

[3:10:23 - 3:10:29] ▶

very high frequency you know energy going into the craft there's something about bismuth i think that's

[3:10:29 - 3:10:36] ▶

yes that yeah that's undiscovered yes and and uh so much that we're unable to do because it's at the

[3:10:36 - 3:10:45] ▶

like the one lazar described bismuth in the ufo samples that stanford professor gary nolan is

[3:11:00 - 3:11:07] ▶

analyzing right now the preponderance of evidence now and the department of defense admitting that these

[3:11:07 - 3:11:14] ▶

things are real that the data is real not what the there's no conclusions yeah um the data is real

[3:11:14 - 3:11:23] ▶

there's so much more than there was 40 years ago yeah i mean all these guys are at the cunning edge

[3:11:28 - 3:11:34] ▶

all my information is so old and probably outdated so who knows how the craft operate now or what kind

[3:11:34 - 3:11:41] ▶

attention i hate f**king attention i don't like being on shows i just want to kind of hide in the corner

[3:11:54 - 3:12:02] ▶

and do you do you feel like you've you know on the first rogan episode you had migraines do you feel

[3:12:06 - 3:12:16] ▶

since i was on the hope rogan's and and my arteries are clear it's all stress i'm sorry i just had uh

[3:12:23 - 3:12:32] ▶

able to just zone out the world with where you're at in life right now and just enjoy the the fruits of

[3:12:47 - 3:12:52] ▶

and yeah i think that time is very very soon and i think it's the best use of your brain power too

[3:13:07 - 3:13:13] ▶

should feel vindicated they'll say that to me and i'm like what the are you talking i was like i got

[3:13:42 - 3:13:46] ▶

very lucky with the timing of like when i got into this stuff but truly i speak to you and i'm like

[3:13:46 - 3:13:53] ▶

oh my god like the there are people like yourself who have been into this stuff for decades in a

[3:13:53 - 3:14:00] ▶

happened and for me to get it from her is like the biggest success because i put her in danger

[3:14:58 - 3:15:08] ▶

we we just went for it knowing that you know all the past there's a lot of negative associated to it

[3:15:19 - 3:15:27] ▶

and i'm so proud of the team i'm proud of chris matto that's like my right hand and all it wouldn't

[3:15:27 - 3:15:35] ▶

wasn't for emily that was at the office taking care of everything she we all know who that is it wouldn't

[3:15:42 - 3:15:48] ▶

exist for vanessa to be doing all this minutia work online and finding all we wouldn't have found the

[3:15:48 - 3:15:54] ▶

year and a half yeah and we're i know the full story and we probably can't get too into the weeds but

[3:16:11 - 3:16:18] ▶

have as far as the antibodies you know going against you and unbelievable stuff yeah stuff that all the

[3:16:35 - 3:16:42] ▶

on a court document on a court on a court document yeah we weren't what the hell are you talking about

[3:17:10 - 3:17:15] ▶

you know something like there's something going on in the background of some routine thing you're

[3:17:26 - 3:17:31] ▶

radioactive we don't want to deal with you that's tough man well you found the one the one gig you

[3:17:51 - 3:17:57] ▶

since the 80s and 90s that wobble like they're on a wave at low altitudes the sports model ufo bob

[3:18:19 - 3:18:26] ▶

are being recovered at the bottom of our oceans all over the world by the navy bob lazar will either be

[3:18:33 - 3:18:40] ▶

forgotten entirely by history as he predicts or as i predict he'll be heralded as a canary in the coal

[3:18:40 - 3:18:47] ▶

mine the forerunner in a stampede of revolutionary new science whether you believe or disbelieve his

[3:18:47 - 3:18:54] ▶

those who take the initiative so if you think there's something to any of this don't let up as the

[3:19:00 - 3:19:06] ▶

first man on the moon neil armstrong once cryptically said there are great ideas undiscovered

[3:19:06 - 3:19:12] ▶

if you're still watching and you made it through all of the exotic ufo science you're one of the

[3:19:22 - 3:19:38] ▶

vintage black plus hat the design has a timeless retro future feel you can wear it every day if

[3:19:45 - 3:19:52] ▶

you've been watching the show lately you've probably already seen me wearing it this is a limited run so

[3:19:52 - 3:19:57] ▶

when it's gone it's gone head to americanalchemymerch.com to grab the believe drop today and while you're

[3:19:57 - 3:20:05] ▶

there the cowboy ufot is a fan favorite we always keep in stock along with the atomic age design thank you

[3:20:05 - 3:20:12] ▶

all so much for following and supporting the show

[3:20:12 - 3:20:26] ▶

I Spent 48 Hours With Bob Lazar (Inside Area51's UFO Program)