the

The line will change.

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When I saw the sine wave move, I went, oh, okay.

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Our guest today is an Air Force sergeant who worked at the highest levels on classified

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projects in electronics and signals intelligence for the United States government.

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This is the most nonchalant conversation I've ever had about alien telepathic communication.

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while serving in the Air Force in the early 90s, he was recruited for an extremely classified

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program at the NSA, or National Security Agency.

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To telepathically decode alien signals for the NSA.

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Alien signals that seem to telepathically transmit descriptions of alien abductions across the

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Alien signals that ultimately gave our very curious guest answers about the very nature of

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the alien presence on Earth.

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Dan Sherman was originally told by the Air Force captain who read him into the program

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that he was given this telepathic ability by the aliens themselves.

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When they abducted Sherman's pregnant mother in the early 1960s and altered his genetics

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This genetic blueprint would allow him to grow into what the NSA would dub an intuitive communicator.

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With the IC communication, you can feel it in your brain.

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Sherman believes the NSA may even have tracked him since childhood into his young adulthood

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and military service until he was finally read into the program.

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Do you think that the NSA or powers that be know that this interview is happening?

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Because of the extremely sensitive nature of this NSA program and its ties to black programs,

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and I bring it up at the end of this interview, catching Sherman a bit off guard.

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Not only that, but at the end of this video, we explore an independent researcher's use of the Freedom of Information Act

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He sent a request to the government to see all of the files on it.

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As you'll see, both the Air Force and NSA's responses to his request are fairly telling.

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The point is, the skeptics can have at it, but this case isn't going away.

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I'd argue that Dan Sherman's story is one of the most important UFO legacy program-related accounts we have to contend with.

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It doesn't comport with a lot of the other stories.

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And so, to me, that is, like, the perfect combo of, like, what I want to investigate,

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And then you're talking about being an intuitive communicator, you know, downloading signals from aliens for the NSA.

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And I know we got, you know, in the book, I talk about machines and how I interface with the computer and all that.

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What was the reason for that?

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My dad was a welder, and we were very, very poor, and just, you know, went with the wind.

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So, I was going from one place to another all the time.

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Yeah, the doctors, she had an accident when she was like 10 or 11.

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She fell off the tailgate of a pickup truck, and her sexual organs were messed up, and the doctors basically said she'd never carry a baby to term.

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And she had many miscarriages, but I was the only one that, I like to say I was the only miscarriage that came, that lived.

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Anyway, so it was definitely an interesting correlation, I guess, to the story after I found out about, you know, what I found out about.

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And he was a major in the Air Force, and he was a SR-71 pilot.

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Here I am a fourth grader, you know, being able to interface with somebody who's been on the news, that met President Carter, you know, that he was like a hero to me.

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And we would talk, I remember conversations with him when we were watching his daughter ride the horse that they were boarding.

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He would tell me about flying in the Air Force.

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I was in the Air Force for twelve years.

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Fort Neade at the NSA headquarters.

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To the crazy skeptics out there, would you be able to produce like a DD-214 or like your service record?

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The main point of asking about the DD-214 thing is to the super skeptic that's out there.

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And there's really no way to deny that you were Air Force Electronics Intelligence at the very least.

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When I went into the military, I went in as a security policeman.

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And at the time that I was taking the tests to get in, you know, the ASVAB tests and the things that they test you on to get you into the military and to also place you.

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They said that I qualified for every job in the Air Force, but I'd have to wait X amount of time if I wanted X job.

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I was out of the military or out of school and graduated, and I just wanted to go.

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Can you say where you were based when you applied for the cross training?

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And so what, as just for the audience, basic context, what are you doing as an ELINT Air Force officer?

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They collect the radio transmissions of border areas or even over a country.

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And then we, as the ELINT-ers, we analyze all that electronic communications and what type of electronic emission it is, whether it radar or comms or even lasers.

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And so we look at the stuff that has to do with radars and military assets that are going to sense us as their enemy.

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So we need to build jamming packages that allow us to completely control the airspace.

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And we didn't build the jamming packages, but we gave them the parameters by which they looked at it.

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The jamming people looked at it, and they built their packages based on what we gave them.

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Well, I went to school initially for the career field in San Angelo, Texas.

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And that's what sent me to the NSA complex.

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So you go to the NSA complex is in Maryland.

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You know, I'm not up on the locations, but we're talking circa 1990s, okay?

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It's called the, I think they called it the black box even.

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But it's the NSA headquarters building in Laurel.

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And so all four services are going in the same class.

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And this is the difference between the Air Force and everybody else.

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The Air Force put us up on the two Air Force guys that were there.

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We got put up at Holiday Inn and all the other services had to stay in dorms.

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And it was a contention, believe me, when the other services are, what?

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It's like, well, you should have went in the Air Force, dude.

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So anyway, we stayed at the Holiday Inn.

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And then I got a call, a random call after I got there from the captain.

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So he told me where to go at the NSA complex.

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I never really had a need to go to the NSA complex myself until he told me that that was

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But you're told that you have to go to the NSA complex.

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And just, again, for the audience, basic context, what is the NSA?

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It's basically in charge of all of the intelligence that America does.

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Yeah, yeah, that's one of the jokes they say.

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Why do you think it is so much, it's sort of less well-known than like the CIA is like

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the proverbial, you know, archetypal intelligence agency.

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And then the NSA, you know, it's known as no such agency.

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Cryptographers, you know, the CIA is, is a human asset and they use their, their,

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they're very closely intertwined with the NSA because they use NSA assets and NSA uses

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Um, but the CIA is the, the, the face of collecting information from other countries.

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That's, that's the kind of the face of it, but the underlying base of it is NSA.

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But, but here's the thing is you don't typically have a, an officer, a captain

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So it was, it was a little odd and a little out of character and, um, or out of the ordinary.

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So I, I met him at the, in the lobby of the NSA.

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So, and, and that was very common in the military.

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You'd, they have to transmit your security clearances to the next base or to your TDY

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He signed me in and we went in, went down the hallways and he, he led me to his office.

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So it's, it's sometimes hard to remember exactly the, uh, the details.

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And, and probably the only reason I know as many details as I do know is because I wrote

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So I, I've written them and I've set them in interviews and stuff, but, um, and by the way, this is the first, interestingly enough, every, um, person that I've talked to about this in the past, like in an interview situation, it's always been a very, very canned type of situation where they would ask you a question.

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You know, it was very, this is the first time.

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And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do it is because this is a podcast.

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You can just, you can just talk and they all, and people will also get a feel for an unedited Dan, as opposed to the, the interviews in the past.

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So yeah, the, the, the, the different things that, um, like the technology and stuff, I remember

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I don't think there was, I think it was just a, a cipher, the, the button ciphers anyway.

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So what was the rank of this guy?

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All the, all my contacts for the project were captains.

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As you know, I'm always on the hunt for things that help me stay sharp, focused, and full of energy while I'm diving into life's mysteries and making this show happen.

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Back in the day, I used to struggle with that post coffee crash and let's not even get into the caffeine jitters.

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Mud water gave me the smooth, steady energy I was missing.

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It's a simple, nourishing way to start the day.

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Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy?

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And, um, and that we, it's the genesis of it was in 1947.

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And, um, it was designed to genetically manage fetuses, human fetuses, so that they would have the heightened ability to do this particular thing that I was going to school for.

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And, um, um, my mother was one of the, the selected targets or whatever you want to call it.

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And, and, and I think that was for the testing and, and trying to get the, the right people, you know, to, to continue the program with.

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And so in 1963, when she was, uh, when she was, um, uh, had me, you know, in term, um, they abducted her again and they, uh, did the genetic management.

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Um, but the result of it was that it gave me the ability to have this communications.

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So he's basically saying that mentions 1947, presumably the year of, of Roswell and a couple of other famous sightings, Kenneth Arnold.

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I can't remember if he actually said it because I already knew about the 1940.

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I mean, everybody knows about the 1947 Roswell thing.

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And, and, and I want everybody in the audience, if you're, uh, 60 years and up to try to remember what happened to you, uh, you know, 35 plus years ago in vivid detail and then, you know, report back if you know, have you have any critiques for, for this.

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Humanity or the U S came into contact with these.

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Well, that, I think that came the, the gray.

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But with, with alien beings and in 1960, uh, this project begins where the aliens are given access, presumably by the American federal government to genetically.

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I would, I would say that the, the government was given access.

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Because the aliens, they had access, whether we liked it or not.

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I mean, if you, if you think about it, because so the, the, the, the, they did it in concert with the military or the government, but I don't know who gave access to who.

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So maybe the abductions have been ongoing.

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And all of a sudden the government.

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And, uh, that involves altering the genetics of fetuses inside the womb of specific mothers, one of whom happened to be your mother.

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And they also chose it by demographics too, because they, um, they knew that a certain percentage of offspring would want to go into the military, of course.

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So they, they tried to demographically, and I would imagine many of the underprivileged and, you know, poor people were the ones that were, were, um, poor families were the ones that were selected.

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It is so unbelievable that you think, okay, this has gotta be a joke or this is, you know, this is, uh, one of those raise, um, hazing things, you know, when you go somewhere and sometimes they haze you because you're the new person or whatever.

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I mean, that did cross my mind, but in, in general, in, in general terms, I was very numb to the situation until at the, at the end is started to gel.

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And so, and I, you know, I'm in the NSA complex that this is not some office in some base somewhere where they're, they can do that type of thing, you know, and joke with you.

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Um, I think I tried to ask some questions, but he, he, he was very, um, very businesslike as far as the, the, the revealing of information because he wasn't, I don't think he knew a lot, you know, to, to answer those questions.

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I think he knew exactly what he needed to do to get his job done just as I'm only was fed the information that I need to get my job done.

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So that's very common in the, in the, um, classified world is need to know, you know, if you have a need to know that, then you'll know it.

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And he describes the sort of compartmentalization of these programs a little bit more, right?

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Um, he went over the onion effect.

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Um, he said that, you know, you have these different layers that are built in the military and in government in general, but definitely military where you have, um, one layer hiding another layer.

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And of course, when you're at the official use only and, and unclassified aspects of things, there's not much of a layer, but when you get to the secret and the top secret and then black, and then in our case, and in the case of this, the gray project.

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So it, one is designed to cover the other.

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And especially when you get up to the black and gray project, because when you have a gray project, um, obviously you need funding.

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You need the, all the logistics that go into running that.

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And only a select few of the people in the black project know about the gray project so that they can do their job and administer the gray project.

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But all the funding, all the, all the, um, manpower, like, you know, me going from one base to another, it's all under the auspices of the black project.

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So it's why, cause a lot of people, even in, you know, in the UFO community, the proverbial thing is like above, above top secret, which is, you know, Timothy Good's famous canonical UFO book.

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And you're paying homage to it with the black.

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And you're saying that above programs that are by definition black and, you know, off the books kind of, or off the books for the public, at least you have these little cutouts that involve the alien presence, which is, that's a big claim.

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And why do you think he would tell you anything about the compartmentalization of it?

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I mean, I was just like anybody else in the world.

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I mean, I, I knew of the concept of, of, of stuff that is above top secret.

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I even read the book probably.

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Um, uh, cause I, I remember the name of it that you just mentioned.

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And that would be your cover, so to speak, for what you're going to be doing with the project.

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No, the fetus.

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Fetus was all inside of her, uh, in the early sixties.

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Well, and, and also in the context of being a military too, we have military protocol that, you know, we don't ask a lot of questions in the military.

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But you don't, you don't think like that when you're an airman or a, you know, a sergeant, you just think, okay, this is the mission and we're, we're going to go forward.

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Does he say anything about the purpose of Project Preserve Destiny and why intuitive communicators are needed in the first place?

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And so he told me that there would be some future event where the ability to intuitively communicate would help the military and help, you know, command and control and, and all that.

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He didn't get into details on it, but he just said that, because I mean, the training itself was, um, centered around communicating stuff like that, like logistics and, and things like that.

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And then he said, it's for a future thing that we know is going to happen and you're going to be one of the communicating, um, aspects of that future event.

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He didn't say anything about the, the, the nature of it at all.

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The, the future event thing, he said in the future and maybe even the event that, that word event, maybe that was something that I put in there.

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I, I don't actually recall, but, but that was my impression that there would be some event in the future that, that would be needed.

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We went to the school.

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He took me in a van to the school and it could have been me coming back to the facility and then meeting him again.

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Um, but we, we took a van from the facility.

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It drove to the school that I would be having the instruction at and couldn't see where we were going at all.

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I mean, that was part of the secrecy of it, obviously is I didn't know where the school was.

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And, and the blue van parked and we got out and 10, about, about 10, 20, 15 feet in front of the, the van, um, doors that we got out was a, a door.

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I know the interior one had a retina scanner.

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Um, we opened the door, went into a vestibule.

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That was the door to the elevator.

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We got in the elevator after doing the hand scan again.

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I think it was the opposite hand the next time.

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Obviously there was only one button in the elevator.

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Um, the.

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Doors opened on the other side of the elevator and we went into a room.

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It had two consoles in it, two, um, computer consoles and a table in the middle.

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And he told me, you know, the kind of logistics of the, the van would pick me up at my hotel.

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And then, um, I think they gave me like the half hour, 45 minutes.

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I can't remember exactly the time, but a short while after I got, um, back from the E-Lint school, they would pick me up in the blue van would be right there in front of the, in the pickup area of the holiday inn.

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And, um, I would get in the van and he would drive me to the school and I would do exactly what we just did, which is get out of the van, go to the door.

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I, my, all my information would be in the scanners and, uh, just go down and go to my console and put on the headphones and sit there.

[0:38:18 - 0:38:26] ▶

You know how we're always diving into the edge of science and consciousness on this show?

[0:38:38 - 0:38:44] ▶

Lately, I've been thinking a lot about aging, not just in terms of years, but in how it actually feels in the body.

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but it supports your body in aging better at the cellular level.

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Experience the science of feeling younger.

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Well, the instructor was through the headphones.

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He just said, put on the headphones and you'll be told what to do after you put the headphones on through the headphones.

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So he showed me the pills and he said they'd be right here on the, on the table.

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And he told me also that there would be another student in the school at the same time.

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Um, and I did finally see that guy and we came about the same time, never at the exact same time, but around the same time.

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And, um, never said a word to one another, took the medicine or, uh, he told me about the medicine, where it would be.

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We just had to get in the van and come here and do exactly what we just did.

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And so you basically had no idea where you were going in the van.

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You just see the inside.

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Well, I assume it was the building.

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Well, I know the school, the consoles were, I I'm positive that.

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Um, and I don't, I, I think the building was ground level too, because I, I don't remember

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Meaning that the school was probably underground.

[0:42:17 - 0:42:19] ▶

The school itself was under a building that was on ground level.

[0:42:19 - 0:42:24] ▶

And I believe also you were talking about the intense secrecy.

[0:42:24 - 0:42:27] ▶

Uh, the captain who you call Captain White in the book, who briefed you initially said

[0:42:27 - 0:42:32] ▶

I can't remember the terminology is, but somebody would be, he would introduce me to somebody

[0:42:43 - 0:42:49] ▶

when I needed to do it in the future.

[0:42:49 - 0:42:50] ▶

would always be introduced by the previous, uh, contact.

[0:43:01 - 0:43:05] ▶

It was the dorm, the dorm that I was living in at the first base that I went to.

[0:43:35 - 0:43:40] ▶

I was living in a dorm and there was a, like a, a dorm phone, so to speak, in the hallway.

[0:43:40 - 0:43:46] ▶

And he told me that the name of the next person and that I would meet them at such and such time.

[0:43:56 - 0:44:03] ▶

And he would have his arms folded in front of the facility.

[0:44:03 - 0:44:06] ▶

And he was the only person there.

[0:44:19 - 0:44:20] ▶

So it wasn't like I was gonna mistake him for one of the other million people that were in front of him.

[0:44:20 - 0:44:24] ▶

But maybe that was somewhat of a signal to just confirm that that was the right contact.

[0:44:24 - 0:44:28] ▶

It's presumably near the NSA complex when you get briefed.

[0:44:34 - 0:44:37] ▶

What instructions do you get through the headphones?

[0:44:40 - 0:44:43] ▶

There were, um, LED boxes in the, on the computer screen in front of me.

[0:44:49 - 0:44:54] ▶

With a, with a green line going through the middle.

[0:45:06 - 0:45:08] ▶

And so I would have 10 of those boxes in front of me on the computer screen.

[0:45:08 - 0:45:14] ▶

I, I can't remember, but it was, it was probably a couple of days and, and each class, you know, it was like three, four hours in the afternoon, evening, early.

[0:45:50 - 0:45:58] ▶

Cause I think in the book you say you couldn't go to the bathroom during the blocks.

[0:46:15 - 0:46:18] ▶

No, I could, I could not go to the bathroom.

[0:46:18 - 0:46:20] ▶

And I also was also very paranoid about going, you know, before going, I would always, you know, be on the toilet, like, you know, definitely before I went because I definitely did not want to have a problem.

[0:46:30 - 0:46:43] ▶

So, um, it was a mentally hummed tone and, and then he, um, he told me to concentrate on the first box while I was doing it.

[0:46:55 - 0:47:04] ▶

So I would look for like, uh, he said, look for movement in the, in the box on the sine wave of the first box.

[0:47:04 - 0:47:11] ▶

And, um, so I would, I would look at that box and just stare at that box and mentally hum the tone.

[0:47:11 - 0:47:19] ▶

It, you'll feel a connection that, um, that is, uh, that is, uh, represented in the box.

[0:47:33 - 0:47:44] ▶

So the, the line will change.

[0:47:45 - 0:47:47] ▶

Um, and so when I, I say in the book that it clicked and that that's kind of the only thing that I could really put human language to.

[0:47:53 - 0:48:05] ▶

And that's what it felt like with the visual and the, the mental aspect of looking at the box.

[0:48:21 - 0:48:26] ▶

When I saw the, the, the, uh, sine wave move, it, it is like, it came into focus, this thing that, that I was doing in my head.

[0:48:26 - 0:48:35] ▶

Well, you must be thinking too, before the clicking happened that this isn't how physics works, right?

[0:49:02 - 0:49:10] ▶

Like in, in your head, you, you, you, you grow up in the U S learning or in anywhere learning that there's some sort of hard separation between mind and matter.

[0:49:10 - 0:49:20] ▶

But the idea that that, you know, tone is represented on a screen and you could somehow affect that representation with your mind to most people would be beyond the pale.

[0:49:27 - 0:49:38] ▶

I did, um, for a short period of time, think that maybe there was a connection between the headphones and, and the computer.

[0:49:39 - 0:49:47] ▶

Because, well, because the headphones weren't wireless.

[0:49:48 - 0:49:51] ▶

They, they had a wire and it went into the cabinet.

[0:49:51 - 0:49:54] ▶

And so, you know, I, I did, I mean, I gave that a lot of thought, like, you know, but that of course was proved wrong later on because I didn't have headphones later on when I was doing the actual communication.

[0:49:54 - 0:50:05] ▶

So when you say it clicked and I realized that's the best way you can sort of describe it.

[0:50:19 - 0:50:23] ▶

Do you then sense, oh my God, this sort of, you know, wave that's going the sine wave.

[0:50:24 - 0:50:30] ▶

Is that the feeling you get?

[0:50:32 - 0:50:33] ▶

Um, but I could definitely, um, affect the, the motion and I could do it just at will.

[0:50:41 - 0:50:50] ▶

Like I could, at first the, the, the sign, you know, the sine wave was like this and it would go like this, you know, the, the two lobes of the sine wave would go like this in harmony with one another.

[0:50:50 - 0:51:02] ▶

That was the clicking, um, aspect.

[0:51:02 - 0:51:05] ▶

And then later on, I mean, the, the whole thing would just like this, you know, when you're actually doing, when you're practicing the, the visual and audio, um, um, feedback, you know, that it was giving me, I would, I would do the communications or whatever the, the IC aspect of what I was doing.

[0:51:05 - 0:51:26] ▶

It would, it would actually do this with the sine wave.

[0:51:26 - 0:51:29] ▶

So at some point I just didn't even pay attention to the sine wave.

[0:51:29 - 0:51:32] ▶

I was just, I was just doing the, what he was telling me to do.

[0:51:32 - 0:51:35] ▶

So you, you like walk in, you have this like connection between you and the sine wave.

[0:51:46 - 0:51:50] ▶

Are you trying to like get the sine wave to do something?

[0:51:52 - 0:51:54] ▶

He was just telling me, well, he did the first sine wave.

[0:51:55 - 0:51:58] ▶

And then the, he would feed another note and I would have to concentrate on the second sine wave.

[0:51:58 - 0:52:04] ▶

And then the third sine wave.

[0:52:04 - 0:52:05] ▶

And that was the kind of the overriding goal.

[0:52:07 - 0:52:10] ▶

And what I was interpreting when I was doing the boxes, it would start to, I could associate certain concepts and numbers and colors and letters and things like that with the actual boxes and the different movements of the, of the sine waves.

[0:52:17 - 0:52:38] ▶

So it was intuitive in the sense that, because it really was intuitive in that when I went, when I started unlocking all these things, it became intuitively aware in my mind, how to do that stuff.

[0:52:38 - 0:52:53] ▶

That's how the, that's why they, they, I think they call it intuitive communication, because once your mind was unlocked with that ability, it intuitively did that.

[0:52:55 - 0:53:05] ▶

So you have a bunch of boxes with sine waves in them, and then you're somehow associating the movements of the sine waves.

[0:53:10 - 0:53:16] ▶

Well, it, the, the clicking was the only really thing that I was associate, I was associating.

[0:53:16 - 0:53:22] ▶

Um, that was the tool by which we could do the clicking or, you know, to, to unlock that particular tone and that ability to intuitively communicate at that, whatever they called it.

[0:53:22 - 0:53:34] ▶

Is the tone that you're listening to changing at all?

[0:53:47 - 0:53:50] ▶

The, the, the tones were different, uh, different notes for each box.

[0:53:52 - 0:53:56] ▶

Um, and did the sine wave change based on the notes?

[0:54:00 - 0:54:03] ▶

Uh, no, it was just the clicking.

[0:54:03 - 0:54:06] ▶

Uh, the, the sine wave itself would, would move based on our, that I had 10 boxes.

[0:54:06 - 0:54:13] ▶

One was another for the clicking aspect.

[0:54:17 - 0:54:18] ▶

Now I don't know what that feedback was and how, because they were monitoring that on the other side.

[0:54:34 - 0:54:39] ▶

And we did that through the clicking, but then the feet, the feeding of the, the information and stuff was my ability.

[0:54:53 - 0:55:01] ▶

And so it really didn't come all together until I actually started the communications with the, with the, the aliens.

[0:55:13 - 0:55:21] ▶

The box didn't mean anything to me at, at some point after I clicked with all of them, but, but the communications itself was when I really realized, oh, this is what, this is how it works.

[0:55:27 - 0:55:39] ▶

So you have 10 boxes, each of which represent a note, so to speak, or the clicking.

[0:55:43 - 0:55:48] ▶

The pattern or the, um, this was just an, the, the 10 boxes were just a manifestation of what was going on.

[0:56:42 - 0:56:49] ▶

But I don't think they were actually using the boxes.

[0:56:50 - 0:56:52] ▶

That you were locked into the sign waves.

[0:57:02 - 0:57:04] ▶

But they had something on the back end.

[0:57:05 - 0:57:06] ▶

And the intuitive communications.

[0:57:24 - 0:57:26] ▶

Level of the brain that was, was doing what was doing here with that mental humming.

[0:57:33 - 0:57:39] ▶

Instead of talking, you know, through the vocal chords and, or even thinking.

[0:57:47 - 0:57:52] ▶

It's an aspect of, of the way our minds work.

[0:57:58 - 0:58:01] ▶

I would assume, you know, if you have in computer science, you have the bit layer and then you have a higher level symbolic languages.

[0:58:38 - 0:58:46] ▶

Um, I would think that language is more like the icons in your computer screens, on your computer screens.

[0:58:53 - 0:58:59] ▶

Well, the, the way I kind of, um, thought about it as, as the years went on and I, you know, would think about stuff like this.

[0:59:13 - 0:59:20] ▶

Um, in the E-Lint we had a carrier wave, you know, which was the power of the, of the transmission.

[0:59:20 - 0:59:27] ▶

Encoded isn't the word, but I'll use that.

[0:59:31 - 0:59:33] ▶

The, the information is encoded on that power wave.

[0:59:34 - 0:59:37] ▶

So the, the, our ability to communicate, talk and think that's a, a power wave.

[0:59:38 - 0:59:45] ▶

And then I, I put this, the, I see ability as a different way to encode information on that power wave.

[0:59:45 - 0:59:52] ▶

And it, and, but it's still the power that's emanating from our being, you know, we're alive and we have power.

[0:59:53 - 0:59:59] ▶

We have, we have, uh, energy emanating from us and we are the carrier wave, but the, the, the power wave.

[0:59:59 - 1:00:08] ▶

that of that energy interesting that's kind of how i've thought about it over the years i feel

[1:00:18 - 1:00:24] ▶

like we're saying the same thing yeah probably you're told that you uh need to be taking pills

[1:00:24 - 1:00:30] ▶

every day you're doing this yeah it's two pills is that right initially it was two pills in the

[1:00:30 - 1:00:36] ▶

supplement so to speak i don't know but i mean they're presumably parts of the brain that enhance

[1:01:33 - 1:01:38] ▶

this stuff and ones that yeah hurt it maybe or impede it um and that part of the goal for you is

[1:01:38 - 1:01:43] ▶

like flattening the sine wave right so it's getting the sine wave to basically the amplitude to lower

[1:01:43 - 1:01:50] ▶

into the the sort of center of the box yeah and that and that was just um a a concentration exercise

[1:01:50 - 1:01:58] ▶

i think on the on the actual note because i would i first i clicked it and so that was the clicking

[1:01:58 - 1:02:04] ▶

further and so that was the feedback i was getting at the visual feedback i could kind of correlate it

[1:02:14 - 1:02:21] ▶

and and i only say note because at some point the note went away and i could just i just did that box

[1:02:29 - 1:02:34] ▶

but um so that's it like the note was almost priming you for a particular box yeah and then i didn't

[1:02:34 - 1:02:41] ▶

need the note it was just that box was in my mind because you had the internal humming going on yeah

[1:02:41 - 1:02:46] ▶

call it because the note went away and even my humming i did that one away too i didn't have to do

[1:02:54 - 1:02:59] ▶

yeah and and then i the flattening was an intensity type of situation where you you could and i don't

[1:03:04 - 1:03:11] ▶

think that had anything to do with the actual communications itself it just was an exercise

[1:03:11 - 1:03:18] ▶

get stronger and stronger in that box this is so wild though because it implies that the nsa has this

[1:03:22 - 1:03:27] ▶

whatever maybe they have in some sense on the computer science layer but this is like a human

[1:03:33 - 1:03:38] ▶

intuitive psychic language that the nsa has well but i don't but i don't think the nsa i think they

[1:03:38 - 1:03:44] ▶

none of them can do it or got it or at least at the time maybe now they do i don't i don't know but

[1:03:52 - 1:03:59] ▶

to give humans the conventions through which like you could even lock on to this stuff like

[1:04:06 - 1:04:14] ▶

they've created like like the nsa i mean yeah it's one or the other i i don't know if because i think

[1:04:25 - 1:04:31] ▶

at some point you know with the technology that we have today sure it could be engine neuralink has

[1:04:37 - 1:04:41] ▶

like looking into that and i do believe the narrative that things have existed in the black

[1:04:46 - 1:04:50] ▶

behind what's in the black that's fine but and there's an actual aspect of that in the story too

[1:04:56 - 1:05:01] ▶

with the white van but that's right yes we'll get over that well why don't we now so so so you're taken

[1:05:01 - 1:05:07] ▶

time or lights lights in the building that were not there typically and so i was like what's going on so

[1:05:13 - 1:05:20] ▶

i looked over to the left and i could see lights um shining on the wall that was in front of the

[1:05:20 - 1:05:25] ▶

blue van but over a little bit further to over on the other side of the van so i was obviously curious

[1:05:25 - 1:05:33] ▶

and so i went i didn't want to go into the front of the van because it's a driver you know i for some

[1:05:33 - 1:05:39] ▶

him i never knew who it was so i didn't want to get in his bad side so i went to the back of the van

[1:05:47 - 1:05:53] ▶

and i looked around and i saw the bumper of a white van it was a white van on on the other side of

[1:05:53 - 1:06:00] ▶

the blue van and that's what was had the headlights on and and as soon as i got back there he honked

[1:06:00 - 1:06:06] ▶

his horn the blue van honked his horn i was like oh okay never mind i'm going to my door thank you

[1:06:06 - 1:06:11] ▶

i don't know how much later um days maybe i i was taking an exit to get to the hotel in maryland there

[1:06:20 - 1:06:29] ▶

and i thought there's no possible way this could be the same van and but you know it's in the area

[1:06:38 - 1:06:46] ▶

the van i remembered it not only then but i remembered it when i saw the van i was like that has a a dent

[1:06:52 - 1:06:59] ▶

it was an identifying feature and so i looked at it i looked at the white van that i saw at the exit and

[1:06:59 - 1:07:05] ▶

is maybe the coolest merch line in the world when you're wearing it it's not like you're shilling me

[1:07:37 - 1:07:43] ▶

or the channel they're just really epic and i think they look good we have a couple of amazing designs

[1:07:43 - 1:07:48] ▶

cow is getting abducted by the ufo in the background and then you know that i love mid-century history

[1:07:56 - 1:08:01] ▶

uh you got a robot serving this guy a little martini and then a ufo off to the side go to american

[1:08:11 - 1:08:19] ▶

alchemy merch.com americanalchemy m-e-r-c-h dot com to check out all of this amazing new apparel the

[1:08:19 - 1:08:29] ▶

um that's the name of the company nct i believe this they went by the initials and and i was like

[1:08:46 - 1:08:54] ▶

in june of 1991 the washington post reported that noise cancellation technologies incorporated

[1:09:20 - 1:09:27] ▶

in linthicum maryland won a 210 thousand dollar contract from darpa or the defense advanced research

[1:09:27 - 1:09:35] ▶

by where he was stationed getting trained by the nsa all of this was also a very short drive to fort meade

[1:09:47 - 1:09:53] ▶

where the government historically has run its psychic spy program but i'm sure all of these are just

[1:09:53 - 1:09:59] ▶

coincidences noise cancellation technologies military ties run even deeper the company is referenced in an

[1:09:59 - 1:10:05] ▶

in further nasa and army funded research according to the company's own website nct is a leading

[1:10:11 - 1:10:17] ▶

technology company dedicated to the development and commercialization of active wave management

[1:10:17 - 1:10:23] ▶

applications the electronic manipulation of sound signal waves to reduce noise improve signal to noise

[1:10:23 - 1:10:29] ▶

sergeant dan sherman was doing for the nsa very interesting yeah yeah because he was in the same

[1:10:35 - 1:10:42] ▶

garage now you know i i don't know what the core i don't know what the exact correlation is well it

[1:10:42 - 1:10:48] ▶

it's not one that you are making up there's there's corroboration uh of them working with the

[1:10:54 - 1:10:59] ▶

because i saw i mean i i correlated the two so yeah and you even talked about you've hypothesized that

[1:11:12 - 1:11:18] ▶

that you know electromagnetic energy is it's an amazing uh phenomenon i agree it's funny in and around the

[1:11:22 - 1:11:29] ▶

the whole alien ufo space you get a lot of like lockheed martin executives like saying weird things like all you need

[1:11:29 - 1:11:38] ▶

communications uh you get electrons pairing off because of the presence of magnetic field you know

[1:12:32 - 1:12:38] ▶

he obviously ran the cia's psychic spy program and i've asked him point blank do you think psychic

[1:13:24 - 1:13:31] ▶

communication is occurring along the lines of this extended electrodynamics where you have patents

[1:13:31 - 1:13:37] ▶

and he's he said to me yeah i do think that's the case that's fantastic isn't that fascinating yeah

[1:13:37 - 1:13:43] ▶

basically to to so it's these um you know vector and scalar potentials in the sub-quantum field that

[1:13:50 - 1:13:56] ▶

are doing the communications um so this is absolutely mind-blowing um and it makes sense right because like

[1:13:56 - 1:14:03] ▶

you look at the early stargate experiments you look at the stuff you know we're going to get into with

[1:14:03 - 1:14:08] ▶

you they would put remote viewers you know in submarines and put them at the bottom of the ocean

[1:14:08 - 1:14:14] ▶

and they would have the exact same you know all this stuff seems to be agnostic of both space and time

[1:14:14 - 1:14:20] ▶

they'd get the exact same results and efficacy when it come came to remote viewing and so it would

[1:14:20 - 1:14:25] ▶

school the air force continuing education thing that you were supposed to do well i had to do that

[1:14:44 - 1:14:47] ▶

during the day okay i was doing that for you know seven eight hours and then i would come back to

[1:14:47 - 1:14:53] ▶

the hotel and have a little break and then i'd get picked up again by the van so did anybody say hey

[1:14:53 - 1:14:58] ▶

to say i was the loner you know i was always the one that was no no i'm good yeah i'm a little tired

[1:15:02 - 1:15:08] ▶

gel with what was supposed to be going on like in the van so it that is just the life of somebody who

[1:16:03 - 1:16:10] ▶

that was on the computer screen when i would um open up the dialogue box i would have to choose staunch 118

[1:16:25 - 1:16:32] ▶

i'm i believe that and no no alien direct communication during the schooling you're just

[1:16:37 - 1:16:43] ▶

stationed at the time and just went back to my elit job doing stuff and um then um i'm not exactly sure

[1:16:50 - 1:16:59] ▶

on the phone the dorm phone it was outdoors too it was a it was in a warm climate and um so there

[1:17:36 - 1:17:43] ▶

were outdoor hallways and so we uh i would have to go around the rent around the building and the phone

[1:17:43 - 1:17:50] ▶

was on the outside there and so anyway picked it up and it was captain white um my first contact

[1:17:50 - 1:17:56] ▶

officer and he said you're going to be he told me the name of the my uh next contact which happened

[1:17:56 - 1:18:03] ▶

to be my unit commander um and which kind of makes sense because i think he was the only captain there

[1:18:03 - 1:18:11] ▶

him but anyway they did all the crossing arms and stuff and um so he told me when to meet him and he'll

[1:18:31 - 1:18:39] ▶

be out front and so i went and at that time and did it met him and he took me into the facility

[1:18:39 - 1:18:46] ▶

um we the facility that i worked it was a a base that was kind of had one mission but we had this

[1:18:46 - 1:18:56] ▶

like little detachment that was part of the base it was on base but we had our own little security

[1:18:56 - 1:19:01] ▶

system fences the whole nine yards and because it was way more classified than anything going on in the

[1:19:01 - 1:19:08] ▶

its own um security systems in the buildings and all so we went in he brought me into a conference room

[1:19:16 - 1:19:25] ▶

and i was there with um another person that was from my base that the other base we just so happened

[1:19:25 - 1:19:33] ▶

that we got assigned here together and we were going through the same indoctrination for our job

[1:19:33 - 1:19:38] ▶

indoctrinated into the into the program into the black project that we were in and um

[1:19:47 - 1:19:53] ▶

a tour of the facility and the captain said i'm going to take dan and so that's when he brought me

[1:20:05 - 1:20:12] ▶

into um well we talked in the conference room first and he told me you know we talked about the the

[1:20:12 - 1:20:20] ▶

the program and and um just you know small talk about the program you went to school and oh great

[1:20:20 - 1:20:27] ▶

had this little banter and and and then he took me into the one of the uh we call them the c vans

[1:20:32 - 1:20:40] ▶

c is for communication but you don't have to have a communication in the c van it's just a c van that's

[1:20:41 - 1:20:46] ▶

what they call them and so um we had several c vans on site and one was our particular part of the

[1:20:46 - 1:20:56] ▶

has to be two people in the van at all times other than a little bit of bathroom break here and there

[1:21:03 - 1:21:08] ▶

um and um he i asked about the the other aspect of my job the black project he said don't worry about

[1:21:08 - 1:21:18] ▶

that you'll be other people will talk to you about that i'm going to talk to you about the gray project

[1:21:18 - 1:21:22] ▶

and so he showed me how to open the the screen and i already knew how to do all this from the the

[1:21:22 - 1:21:29] ▶

previous time but he maybe thought i didn't i don't know or he didn't know that it was the same system

[1:21:29 - 1:21:34] ▶

but he showed me how to bring up the box the communications box and um just went over the

[1:21:34 - 1:21:42] ▶

know for pilots you know they had the left seat and the right seat we had that too the left seat was the

[1:21:53 - 1:21:59] ▶

different aspect of the black job black project job and mine the right seat was another aspect of the

[1:21:59 - 1:22:06] ▶

i could open up the dial-up box and he said i asked him you know when is it going to start do i do you

[1:22:11 - 1:22:18] ▶

yeah and that guy has no idea what you're doing no no and the guy who's briefing you who presumably

[1:22:45 - 1:22:51] ▶

just the administrator he he doesn't know did you ever try to kind of cross check because i'm sure

[1:22:58 - 1:23:04] ▶

i'm sure along the way you're trying to suss this project out you know throughout not the time not the

[1:23:04 - 1:23:09] ▶

so this is before the internet before you know you're just isolated basically you're intellectually

[1:23:15 - 1:23:21] ▶

yeah yeah everything was the same okay yeah so there it wasn't like because yeah if i were you i'd be

[1:23:54 - 1:23:59] ▶

like well maybe i am getting hazed and i'd try to poke and like ask person b the same questions i asked

[1:23:59 - 1:24:06] ▶

person a and see if their answers were the same my intentions were not as devious as that fair enough

[1:24:06 - 1:24:11] ▶

your experience it the answers were mostly the same it felt very coherent yeah definitely yeah i mean

[1:24:18 - 1:24:24] ▶

know and this is actually i think you said at the book this guy's name was sergeant larson is that right

[1:24:30 - 1:24:36] ▶

no it was a captain i think the larson was a sergeant he was in the room with us but he wasn't okay

[1:24:36 - 1:24:42] ▶

some questions about the secrecy and he went into the onion stuff but he didn't say the gray black

[1:24:48 - 1:24:55] ▶

oh he didn't talk about the great black during our during our black introduction he went into the

[1:24:55 - 1:25:01] ▶

back the idea that the gray projects are concealed within the the black projects and so no okay

[1:25:05 - 1:25:11] ▶

interesting yeah he he only went up to the black project because he probably got a at some point a

[1:25:11 - 1:25:17] ▶

speech about onion the onion aspect but only to the black yeah layer so to speak because in your book

[1:25:17 - 1:25:23] ▶

basically the same as you know the nsa complex that you were in no i can't remember but they i think

[1:25:33 - 1:25:39] ▶

they all had about the same like the basic yeah these big sun or spark i think they were spark uh monitors

[1:25:39 - 1:25:46] ▶

we had yeah i don't even know the brand yeah it it was um back then you know

[1:25:46 - 1:25:52] ▶

you know monitors were this big and and wide you know big and the screen was only about that big

[1:25:52 - 1:26:01] ▶

not familiar like wow you you got the cadillac here what's going on here you guys your budget's high

[1:26:07 - 1:26:14] ▶

so yeah we have these spark i think they were called spark i think that was the name sun spark something

[1:26:14 - 1:26:20] ▶

like that and so you put your headphones on you take the pills same thing yep um no no no headphones

[1:26:20 - 1:26:26] ▶

no headphones yeah we didn't have headphones in the in the van okay um uh but you know i had a mouse and

[1:26:26 - 1:26:33] ▶

and the and the monitor and yeah i took the pills he he told me that he had a bottle of pills he said um

[1:26:33 - 1:26:40] ▶

with other people i mean we were the only shift we were one shift but then another shift would come

[1:27:03 - 1:27:08] ▶

okay and so you are in this van as that's your workstation now and you take the pills and then

[1:27:14 - 1:27:21] ▶

comes and and it's going to start when it starts that's it that's all the direction i got i was like uh

[1:27:25 - 1:27:31] ▶

it so it took a while it took um i can't remember how long but it was it was a while later that the

[1:27:47 - 1:27:55] ▶

first con came and that's when it the ball started rolling so to speak and when you say the first comms

[1:27:55 - 1:28:03] ▶

uh i think the first communication was something like prepare prepare for receiving or prepare for

[1:28:11 - 1:28:19] ▶

something prepare for communication and that would be the the thing that would kick off like i my

[1:28:19 - 1:28:26] ▶

you're thinking about you know the the mic stand and you're

[1:28:54 - 1:29:00] ▶

don't know where the snaps are going but with um with the ic communication you can feel it in your

[1:29:06 - 1:29:15] ▶

and so the when the first communication would come in i in my mind's eye so to speak the tapestry came

[1:29:48 - 1:29:55] ▶

the only way i can really voc vocalize the visualization do you remember which parts of your

[1:30:02 - 1:30:07] ▶

area whoa yeah yeah so somehow more of a discrete area than yeah the general i felt it it's more of

[1:30:14 - 1:30:22] ▶

like others yeah it felt like it was external from the kind of when compared to your own thoughts yeah

[1:30:33 - 1:30:40] ▶

started uh getting communications started receiving them i pop up the the window and i would start typing

[1:30:51 - 1:30:58] ▶

the whatever i was interpreting at receiving and um at first it was just numbers it was um it was the idea

[1:30:58 - 1:31:10] ▶

well i would get a preamble like the one and one eight and this is where i'm really showing my how long

[1:31:11 - 1:31:20] ▶

like that number after the one one eight and i never really knew what that was but it was something

[1:31:28 - 1:31:33] ▶

i would do slashes after each um focus you know of where in the tapestry i'd go again and so i'd put a

[1:31:40 - 1:31:50] ▶

slash and then i put the whatever it was and it was just numbers just initially so you were almost

[1:31:50 - 1:31:56] ▶

you're seeing the slash no no um when i would receive the communication and i'm i'm this is me um

[1:32:06 - 1:32:15] ▶

putting this into words but it's not necessarily exactly this but this is the best way i can convey it

[1:32:16 - 1:32:23] ▶

it has it can be very colorful i think that's just my interpretation of of what's going on i think the

[1:32:34 - 1:32:42] ▶

say put a slash are you on the computer on that you're typing type the computer so you think and then

[1:33:59 - 1:34:04] ▶

you'd type i would receive yeah yeah and and type it whatever it was that was in that little area of the

[1:34:04 - 1:34:11] ▶

um uh reporting yeah um like in that area i would see the numbers i would see four five seven eight two

[1:35:02 - 1:35:10] ▶

rocket rocket rocket and um i could see around the payload area i could see the seams and a and a

[1:35:28 - 1:35:36] ▶

of detail depending on how much time you had to type and but and and the visual wasn't there for

[1:35:54 - 1:35:59] ▶

correlate the thoughts or messages you were receiving with real events so like that rocket blowing up

[1:36:05 - 1:36:12] ▶

you know look up you know i mean that's hard to do you don't have the internet but i did um um

[1:36:12 - 1:36:18] ▶

there was a it was in the news i think there was a um a chinese launch of a of a rocket that had blown up

[1:36:19 - 1:36:28] ▶

but i don't remember if it was the same one that you received yeah because in your book you say like

[1:36:35 - 1:36:40] ▶

arianne likes you know certain company launches you felt like you were tapping into the actual

[1:36:40 - 1:36:44] ▶

on the pulse of whatever is going on here i think it was their um way of testing my ability to

[1:36:54 - 1:37:01] ▶

in a in a military type of functioning or the you know mechanical and and all the stuff that went along

[1:37:14 - 1:37:22] ▶

what i saw you know did i describe was it white or would i describe the length of it or what would

[1:37:23 - 1:37:31] ▶

was doing a they was an ic in the system was getting the same types of things so that you can see

[1:37:38 - 1:37:45] ▶

reveal itself as having a personality um yeah the the first one he was i sensed a very logical

[1:38:07 - 1:38:16] ▶

i didn't put it in the best words back when i wrote the book but i but i look on it now and i think it

[1:38:28 - 1:38:33] ▶

was the um i did say in the book that i think i said that he was very logical it was very um

[1:38:33 - 1:38:40] ▶

more structured the communication was a little bit more structured and it wasn't as you know that tapestry

[1:38:42 - 1:38:48] ▶

i i wish i had more experiences of more aliens so i could see the differences because i only saw two

[1:39:01 - 1:39:08] ▶

and the and spock the first one he was um his tapestry and again i just say tapestry because i don't know how to

[1:39:08 - 1:39:15] ▶

eye it was very straight like this his communications were in a straight line like the the one area would

[1:39:28 - 1:39:36] ▶

himself or you call him small no okay so i guess i have to explain that uh um the reason why i no i

[1:39:45 - 1:39:54] ▶

and i wasn't referring to him to anybody else so the joke was lost on on the world yeah until i wrote

[1:40:09 - 1:40:15] ▶

started getting the imagery type stuff um but the first was very uh spock well okay so at the end of

[1:40:54 - 1:41:04] ▶

my time at first the first base um i was doing a communication i was receiving something and the

[1:41:04 - 1:41:13] ▶

or do that again um i there was no real back and forth but i went into and this is the hardest thing

[1:41:19 - 1:41:28] ▶

and i was i was trying to get up the the courage to break from the formality of our communications

[1:41:44 - 1:41:52] ▶

know um what the protocol would be for that i was receiving stuff and i could actually convey messages

[1:41:58 - 1:42:06] ▶

back as far as feedback and stuff but i didn't know what the the the formality would be to have an

[1:42:06 - 1:42:13] ▶

it was the weirdest thing because it went into another i i say plain but i can't really explain it

[1:42:36 - 1:42:42] ▶

it was a different it was a different tapestry let's just say that way you know the the tapestry

[1:42:42 - 1:42:46] ▶

then closer you know like the lens that i told you about the camera yeah um this one was like a

[1:42:57 - 1:43:05] ▶

than the the um tapestry that i keep talking about anyway so i asked him a question in this plane and i

[1:43:12 - 1:43:19] ▶

didn't and it shocked me when i did that it because when i asked the question i was just asking it in the

[1:43:19 - 1:43:24] ▶

my my way of explaining the visual of it in my head um and and so i asked the question and then i also

[1:43:33 - 1:43:43] ▶

i can't remember the exact communication but um and so i i asked questions and honestly i can't remember a lot of the questions i asked i i i'm

[1:43:58 - 1:44:10] ▶

it's what was the so you have this different plane of communication initially when you're communicating with spock

[1:44:10 - 1:44:16] ▶

none of it well until we got to the imagery part it none of it really meant anything to me so it was

[1:44:23 - 1:44:28] ▶

like you were just relaying this information to just a conduit the nsa yeah and but you didn't really know

[1:44:28 - 1:44:34] ▶

remember the name what the question was but um he he seemed shocked and i i said am i allowed to speak

[1:44:42 - 1:44:52] ▶

don't think it was it was in the purview of the the program to chat with these people it was or these

[1:45:21 - 1:45:27] ▶

humans you know it was just the the testing that was going on but i was able to ask you know the

[1:45:27 - 1:45:33] ▶

questions i wrote in the book you know i had some questions and overall overall impressions of what

[1:45:33 - 1:45:38] ▶

i got from those questions what are what are some of those questions that you have well like the like

[1:45:38 - 1:45:43] ▶

the um how did they get here how did they travel and about time because i've always been interested

[1:45:43 - 1:45:50] ▶

there wasn't any um it wasn't a thesis written out so that i can analyze it he just gave me the

[1:46:22 - 1:46:29] ▶

you think about the fourth dimension of time or time as humans know it and it is this linear you know

[1:46:48 - 1:46:54] ▶

permanently progressing thing you get in the river you know that's the kind of metaphor you know and

[1:46:54 - 1:46:59] ▶

a tesseract you know and the tesseract is is is uh curling around or whatever it's like kind of like a

[1:47:12 - 1:47:20] ▶

you have three degrees of motion and um you know if you were to you could hop from this part of the

[1:47:33 - 1:47:40] ▶

coil to this part of the coil or whatever and that would be actually like a very short distance if you

[1:47:40 - 1:47:46] ▶

where the wormholes come in where you come one one aspect of the temporal to the next aspect of the

[1:47:52 - 1:47:57] ▶

temporal so you can travel between the two yeah yeah it's i i didn't really i didn't understand it and

[1:47:57 - 1:48:03] ▶

but he could have meant something different too i don't know well john wheeler the famous princeton

[1:48:19 - 1:48:24] ▶

or black holes nobody knows what happens beyond the event horizon of the black hole and so yeah and

[1:48:28 - 1:48:33] ▶

yeah it's it's it definitely was fascinating and just the little bit that i did get from him

[1:48:46 - 1:48:51] ▶

it blew my mind um and he also um mentioned uh we talked about uh the sun he said that

[1:48:51 - 1:49:00] ▶

it's almost as if they respected our sun um more than you would think that and you know you we take the sun

[1:49:14 - 1:49:23] ▶

for granted it's just the sun you know that that's where we get sunlight and energy and and it's no big

[1:49:23 - 1:49:29] ▶

deal but he he kind of i felt it was more of a reverence uh um feeling towards the sun because he was

[1:49:29 - 1:49:36] ▶

talking about how we really don't understand the the value of our sun and that we will at some point

[1:49:36 - 1:49:43] ▶

this analogy of the sun being some sort of like portal to other star systems and i don't know you

[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶

think about the history the sun is so interesting you have on gotten you know this the sun god and

[1:50:04 - 1:50:09] ▶

even if you read isaac asimov wrote a book called the kingdom of the sun where it talks about the changing

[1:50:09 - 1:50:14] ▶

conception of humanity's understanding of the sun and you read about you know copernicus who you know

[1:50:14 - 1:50:21] ▶

theorized the heliocentric universe and he had this very mystical conception of the sun that went well

[1:50:21 - 1:50:26] ▶

more and more about the sun and we're sending probes and and all that and it's still a very wide open

[1:50:41 - 1:50:49] ▶

even said that your scientists are just now figuring out how the sun generates energy and you know you

[1:50:57 - 1:51:04] ▶

have obviously kardashev scales which kind of measure you know how advanced the civilization is and you

[1:51:04 - 1:51:10] ▶

know level two would be basically creating a dyson sphere which is harnessing the energy of the sun

[1:51:10 - 1:51:15] ▶

so maybe not in our lifetime but maybe not in our lifetime but i mean the sun is a fusion generator

[1:51:15 - 1:51:21] ▶

energy generation so so anyway that those are those were the kind of the highlights um it it wasn't a

[1:51:27 - 1:51:36] ▶

treasure trove of information and i wish it was because it would make the book a lot more interesting

[1:51:36 - 1:51:41] ▶

that's for sure but it was um these are just kind of the impressions that i got and it was a it was a

[1:51:41 - 1:51:48] ▶

slowly coming to terms with i've actually been asked just recently to um be part of the um congressional

[1:51:58 - 1:52:05] ▶

point where the government is going to have to say something or give some some little tidbit of

[1:52:19 - 1:52:26] ▶

information to the world because you would think the the pressure is just yeah you just can't explain it

[1:52:26 - 1:52:31] ▶

away through campfire stories anymore uh i just want to get back to the core details of the spock thing

[1:52:31 - 1:52:37] ▶

yeah tapestry i have the same stereotypical view of an alien that everybody else has yeah i don't have any

[1:52:52 - 1:52:59] ▶

know it well i think it uh largely has to do with the fact that we never really became intimate as far as

[1:53:44 - 1:53:50] ▶

our conversations so you kind of it it might as well have just been the computer at the school as far

[1:53:50 - 1:53:56] ▶

as i was concerned right other than um the the the colorful um not colorful the the detail of the of

[1:53:56 - 1:54:07] ▶

new to me it i was able to tap into it easily because of my training but the training never i never saw that

[1:54:14 - 1:54:25] ▶

that um venue of communication until i actually got the communications from the aliens until then it was

[1:54:26 - 1:54:35] ▶

very it was very um um it was very clean it was um let's say what's the word uh sanit it was sanitized

[1:54:35 - 1:54:47] ▶

of clarity to it was there anything special about the base where you were like maybe i'm being asked to

[1:55:12 - 1:55:19] ▶

um the project that i worked on i mean other than um project preserve destiny the black project was a

[1:55:30 - 1:55:39] ▶

interesting uh it was i don't i don't know if there would be any correlation between the two

[1:55:54 - 1:55:59] ▶

i mean other than just being the cover for it yeah because i think i don't know there are guys that

[1:56:00 - 1:56:06] ▶

streber before this started rolling and he was looking to whitley streber they were about to meet the day

[1:56:12 - 1:56:18] ▶

air he ran the whole washington you know uh national labs he was like an atomic energy kind of godfather in the united states

[1:56:26 - 1:56:33] ▶

and he in 1987 towards the end of his life started to come out and write letters to ufo researchers like this guy william steinman

[1:56:34 - 1:56:43] ▶

and say you know um the ufo rumors are substantially true vannevar bush was involved in this project as

[1:56:43 - 1:56:50] ▶

i wonder if his vector in the whole ufo thing was some sort of communication modality with the aliens

[1:56:55 - 1:57:03] ▶

that was maybe what was on that side of the electromagnetic spectrum what was the content of

[1:57:03 - 1:57:07] ▶

yeah i don't know what what what exact spectrum but i i i don't mean the spectrum i just mean it's about

[1:57:18 - 1:57:24] ▶

about electromagnetic energy yes yeah yeah yeah exactly well and but was it was it about um the

[1:57:24 - 1:57:33] ▶

interesting i don't know did you at any point think that maybe this wasn't an alien on the

[1:57:38 - 1:57:46] ▶

other end of the communication you were just being told that because i do think this is the what makes

[1:57:46 - 1:57:51] ▶

this whole topic so tricky is that in certain cases the reverse dynamic of what you just of what

[1:57:51 - 1:57:57] ▶

the communication trail and you'd catch soviet spies or you know you do also throw people off the

[1:58:26 - 1:58:32] ▶

breaks physics which is fascinating or the physics as we know it but humans through more mind matter

[1:58:47 - 1:58:54] ▶

parapsychological means now we have like the telepathy tapes it's one of the most popular podcasts in the

[1:58:54 - 1:59:00] ▶

u.s uh earlier this year yeah you're probably familiar i i heard the name yeah talks about these like

[1:59:00 - 1:59:07] ▶

tagging it with the alien thing um i gave that some thought um especially when i was writing the

[1:59:28 - 1:59:33] ▶

interpreted into the public you know and and what people would ascribe to my experience and how they

[1:59:44 - 1:59:53] ▶

a human or not um but i i can say that the the way the communications happened unless um unless we've

[2:00:19 - 2:00:31] ▶

we've somehow gained the ability to do that in some way the the style of communication was very foreign

[2:00:31 - 2:00:40] ▶

to how our minds think yeah so maybe on this plane even if you have two humans that is kind of the

[2:00:40 - 2:00:47] ▶

and like it does feel foreign the way it's being communicated doesn't feel like it's interesting i mean

[2:01:01 - 2:01:08] ▶

there are non-verbal tribes indigenous tribes that talk about the ancient language where they are able to

[2:01:09 - 2:01:14] ▶

know like couples over long periods of time and that sort of thing twins i mean they're the classic

[2:01:21 - 2:01:27] ▶

example um and so this felt like a different variety yeah but the communications i would think anyway

[2:01:27 - 2:01:35] ▶

the communications in that way would still be human type of communications because we think that's what i'm

[2:01:35 - 2:01:41] ▶

induction do you know what that is well i've seen those speakers you know that you can put around your your neck or whatever and they had the bone induction

[2:01:59 - 2:02:07] ▶

information that bypass the traditional kind of auditory track and actually the director of the nsa

[2:02:29 - 2:02:36] ▶

anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever be uh become available for uh technological research

[2:02:49 - 2:02:58] ▶

uh outside of the uh military circles again i honestly don't know uh uh 10 years ago the answer would

[2:02:58 - 2:03:05] ▶

question for me is like what came first is it the alien stuff or is it the weird mk ultra like kind of

[2:03:28 - 2:03:34] ▶

a totally you know new area for the nsa nobody thinks they're involved with but i uh i you know

[2:04:15 - 2:04:22] ▶

genuinely alien but um okay so uh that was the first space uh you're gonna take a sip of water

[2:04:26 - 2:04:32] ▶

at least we don't have the cigars like uh rogan yeah yeah yeah are you a fan of his yeah yeah he's

[2:04:40 - 2:04:47] ▶

about the weather or something i'm sure usually like maybe you occasionally tell people yeah i was

[2:05:33 - 2:05:38] ▶

you know recruited uh by the nsa to decode alien signals oh cool yeah what's um what are you doing

[2:05:38 - 2:05:44] ▶

not even capable of like holding it in their world view i i um but i have the opposite effect really in

[2:05:49 - 2:05:55] ▶

the name of it i say it's on amazon you can you know above black yeah search for it and and um and then

[2:06:20 - 2:06:26] ▶

don't doesn't feel like you have some like you know desire for attention you have the you have the

[2:07:02 - 2:07:07] ▶

went to um conferences when i when i first released the book i would be invited to all kinds of conferences

[2:07:14 - 2:07:19] ▶

yeah yeah yeah ufo conferences and alien conferences and and holy moly the people

[2:07:19 - 2:07:25] ▶

and it's like come on like you really you really you're it is you're the messiah like it's great it's

[2:07:41 - 2:07:47] ▶

stuff going on um experiences and things and one guy had the uh stigmata uh-huh you know you're

[2:07:55 - 2:08:04] ▶

you're familiar with that oh yeah that stuff and he had an open wound like right in the middle of his

[2:08:04 - 2:08:10] ▶

well i think the stigmata guy you know is trying to compete against people like you who are just like

[2:08:47 - 2:08:53] ▶

the core details are very verifiable and uh well it's it's kind of why i kind of left the scene

[2:08:58 - 2:09:04] ▶

mm-hmm because i really i mean my story is my story yeah i read in the book and that's it i mean

[2:09:04 - 2:09:10] ▶

the puzzle and that's all i'm good for i mean i don't need to just let me hide over here in the

[2:09:23 - 2:09:29] ▶

corner somewhere yeah yeah yeah and i get you know i get i get pinged on twitter all the time and and

[2:09:29 - 2:09:35] ▶

i wrote it in the book yeah i i don't what else do you need to know so the the i love this this

[2:09:50 - 2:09:58] ▶

it and but for the most part i just don't need to talk about this anymore because there's plenty of

[2:10:04 - 2:10:09] ▶

other people talking about it it's in the book and well i'm honored you said yes to me why did you say

[2:10:09 - 2:10:15] ▶

yes to me well um you have a good charm over texts very good charm and now in person the same so that's

[2:10:15 - 2:10:23] ▶

say vocally to people yeah about the book we're probably i would assume going to cover pretty much

[2:10:33 - 2:10:39] ▶

the entire thing yes and and so it's out there and at my age you know i want to get it at the point

[2:10:39 - 2:10:46] ▶

want to let it let it go into the ether and and it's well researched well documented well talked you

[2:10:53 - 2:11:01] ▶

answer um yeah all the the the interviews that i've had up to this point were not podcasts before

[2:11:26 - 2:11:32] ▶

that begets skepticism now like when you see the like the even the late night talk shows or like the

[2:11:59 - 2:12:06] ▶

you know the the prime time broadcasts or whatever and it's this like very like done up you know

[2:12:06 - 2:12:13] ▶

manicured like like you know set thing where it's like the producers were in touch with the guests

[2:12:13 - 2:12:18] ▶

have honestly rogan's the biggest innovator og og him and like mark marin and stuff where it's just

[2:12:26 - 2:12:33] ▶

was fully just off the cuff and you get a sense for you're this voyeur looking into a conversation

[2:12:34 - 2:12:41] ▶

know had a stigmata uh you know one of the first guys to receive uh stigmata was saint francis of

[2:13:18 - 2:13:24] ▶

studies professor named diana pisalka and she basically says if you look at the original translation

[2:13:32 - 2:13:38] ▶

saying what a host yeah you know we do we can't that's awesome yeah okay so we're midway through the

[2:13:51 - 2:14:01] ▶

force electronics intelligence job or what do you yeah all of it's under the auspices of that okay um

[2:14:13 - 2:14:20] ▶

and then i get i get orders that base is actually i i close that base down um the base itself closed

[2:14:21 - 2:14:28] ▶

the entire base not just our aspect of it okay so um i went to my next base and um same thing got

[2:14:28 - 2:14:39] ▶

wanted to do yeah just hanging out actually a funny story i you're supposed to stay within the area you

[2:14:52 - 2:15:01] ▶

i drove just about to say the state but i won't um i drove to a friend's house it was about a uh

[2:15:08 - 2:15:18] ▶

me in and say you need to be here at eight o'clock in the morning and i was like oh my gosh i got to get

[2:15:27 - 2:15:35] ▶

back and it was a blizzard there was a blizzard the entire way home and i almost didn't make it back

[2:15:35 - 2:15:42] ▶

because of the blizzard and so um the the moral of that story is uh do what they tell you to do and

[2:15:42 - 2:15:48] ▶

stay in the local area when you have a 30 day uh hiatus anyway yes i so my clarence's got um is finally

[2:15:48 - 2:15:57] ▶

there and i got um for that one i went into my job and i was working my regular job and the introduction

[2:15:57 - 2:16:07] ▶

happened by the previous captain actually showing up at my job in on the floor where i was working

[2:16:07 - 2:16:15] ▶

and i was like oh hey cat what's up i didn't even know you were in the states i i didn't know where he

[2:16:16 - 2:16:22] ▶

so this is the guy pseudonymously named captain white or uh yeah whoever was the captain i i i can't

[2:16:30 - 2:16:36] ▶

remember the names now but the the captain at the first base yeah okay it was my former contact he was

[2:16:36 - 2:16:42] ▶

together and so i got a an in-person interaction this time as opposed to over the phone or whatever

[2:16:52 - 2:16:58] ▶

and then he took me over to the computer screen and i had already i had already looked it up i'd

[2:16:59 - 2:17:05] ▶

already done the thing and i saw that it was there so he didn't really even have to tell me but um but

[2:17:05 - 2:17:10] ▶

i knew who my contact was now so that was the most important thing and same thing you go to this sort

[2:17:10 - 2:17:17] ▶

conditioned room it was um uh this was oh the previous base was very small we had like

[2:17:22 - 2:17:29] ▶

small knit or close knit um but the next base it was a very big base very big uh detachment um uh we had

[2:17:36 - 2:17:46] ▶

a multi-service air force navy marines everybody was there in the same building um so it was a big room

[2:17:46 - 2:17:54] ▶

uh but i wasn't as close to the people around me either so i had a little bit more space to do my thing

[2:17:54 - 2:18:01] ▶

the same thing you know just same variety as the first well no actually the communication has changed

[2:18:32 - 2:18:40] ▶

themselves but i'm just saying that the whole process i every once in a while i just get to

[2:18:40 - 2:18:45] ▶

get a communication just like i did at the previous space and you're just sitting at your workstation

[2:18:45 - 2:18:49] ▶

sometimes i was yeah sometimes i was in the bathroom i mean i could be anywhere in the building

[2:18:49 - 2:18:54] ▶

you'd receive communications wherever yeah it but i was always in the building so you'd always be in the

[2:18:54 - 2:18:59] ▶

building and then you'd go to the workstation and yeah they type it whoever was overseeing this whole

[2:18:59 - 2:19:06] ▶

received some sort of message you'd go to the the monitor and you'd type in slash and you'd type in

[2:19:12 - 2:19:18] ▶

whatever messages you're seeing and 118 then the five digit code but the rest of the communication

[2:19:18 - 2:19:24] ▶

more detailed the communications were much more detailed how so what were they like very like

[2:19:32 - 2:19:36] ▶

could get a kind of a a sense of an emotion with the images so it wasn't you know like when you watch

[2:19:45 - 2:19:56] ▶

words but i i felt emotion i could feel emotion with the image um not necessarily all the time but if it

[2:20:17 - 2:20:24] ▶

meant to have emotion then i could feel emotion um now whether that was conveyed with the message

[2:20:24 - 2:20:33] ▶

or whether i had emotion looking at the visual i don't i can't really you know suss that as far

[2:20:33 - 2:20:41] ▶

as which uh which was the generator of it the image or me but i did feel emotion with some of the images

[2:20:41 - 2:20:50] ▶

um so it was very much more colorful um do you remember any of the specifics of what was coming

[2:20:50 - 2:20:56] ▶

through oh like the example the rocket that was one of the ones that i got that was a visual um

[2:20:56 - 2:21:03] ▶

the visuals were at the base two two not base one that's so interesting that it's like rockets

[2:21:12 - 2:21:17] ▶

and um two and a half ton deuces or whatever they're called the the big truck carrying trucks um

[2:21:35 - 2:21:43] ▶

some nature stuff like in the forest uh animals things like that did they feel like things of

[2:21:55 - 2:22:02] ▶

particular strategic importance or like were they just random well no i i really honestly believe the

[2:22:02 - 2:22:09] ▶

entire process or the the the entire time that i was doing this was all testing it wasn't it wasn't

[2:22:09 - 2:22:16] ▶

didn't have any functionality to it was this alien being that you're now speaking to the same as spock

[2:22:16 - 2:22:22] ▶

was it different no this was a different one um i only know that based on the the uh the quality of

[2:22:22 - 2:22:29] ▶

the communication because it i would i could say that if i were talking to you on the phone and and then

[2:22:29 - 2:22:36] ▶

you put you know somebody else on the phone like a lady i could tell that that was two people sure even

[2:22:36 - 2:22:42] ▶

another guy i could tell those two people and that in the same way with this communication you can you

[2:22:42 - 2:22:47] ▶

can definitely tell that the communication is different it has a different flavor different

[2:22:47 - 2:22:51] ▶

um substance to it subs um like the tapestry analogy that i meant it's a different type of tapestry so

[2:22:51 - 2:22:59] ▶

started on the the star trek theme so i just continued it with bones and and i only said bones

[2:23:12 - 2:23:18] ▶

correlation with the first one there was a correlation because he was logical and so i was like oh that's

[2:23:23 - 2:23:27] ▶

cool let's let's name him spock but the second one was just a continuation of the the naming did you

[2:23:27 - 2:23:34] ▶

spock but then i left soon after we shut down that that communications there because the base base was

[2:23:48 - 2:23:56] ▶

closing and the c van was being uh closed up and you know um packed up and all that so um i wasn't able

[2:23:56 - 2:24:04] ▶

i tried that new plane that was telling you about the the closer one and he was also fairly um i

[2:24:11 - 2:24:20] ▶

used the regular um tapestry or plane or whatever you want to call it um but i kind of associated this

[2:24:35 - 2:24:44] ▶

in my mind i associated that other one the closer one with a more informal communication so that's what

[2:24:44 - 2:24:50] ▶

i would always use for my questions and so i had questions for bones and i think that a lot of the ones

[2:24:50 - 2:24:58] ▶

that we went over already are the ones that came from bones but well you you also i think

[2:24:58 - 2:25:02] ▶

asked both bones and spock is it okay that we're communicating like this from the perspective of

[2:25:03 - 2:25:09] ▶

this national security program that you're involved with and i think they both said the same thing

[2:25:09 - 2:25:14] ▶

the exact um but he basically said that there's no problem i mean it's not a big deal yeah yeah it's

[2:25:20 - 2:25:27] ▶

what the you know exact protocols are of your like human program so it's cool with us like it doesn't

[2:25:33 - 2:25:40] ▶

matter for you know from our perspective it seemed like they were kind of like uh uh on the same track

[2:25:40 - 2:25:46] ▶

like maybe they have officers on the alien side and they're like they have need to know and they don't

[2:25:51 - 2:25:56] ▶

they would just shut down um but but i didn't get the sense that there was a certain way that things

[2:26:06 - 2:26:13] ▶

needed to happen they were i think they were more interested in the testing of my ability to

[2:26:13 - 2:26:18] ▶

communicate yeah then they were necessarily the content now of course i i'm sure they had off

[2:26:18 - 2:26:25] ▶

limit types of subjects that they couldn't talk about but um for the most part when when i did ask

[2:26:26 - 2:26:32] ▶

like the words literally will fail on you as well so what did bones say about religion when you asked

[2:26:56 - 2:27:02] ▶

uh well i got the impression that we were um he mentioned that the that we are part of the same

[2:27:02 - 2:27:10] ▶

creation in other words we're part of the same fabric of existence as the aliens yeah okay yeah

[2:27:10 - 2:27:17] ▶

intelligent and non-intelligent and like plants were part of the non-intelligent and we and them were

[2:27:30 - 2:27:37] ▶

part of the intelligent creation and that if you have intelligence then you have what i interpreted

[2:27:37 - 2:27:44] ▶

because at the time i was religious i i had a religious belief so to speak um so i think i pushed

[2:27:58 - 2:28:06] ▶

had advanced because it was the the levels of communication between civilizations and stuff

[2:28:59 - 2:29:05] ▶

wanted the distance it was harder to do that when other societies were talking about each other this

[2:29:15 - 2:29:21] ▶

was my impression they didn't exactly say it that way but that's what i i got the impression of did they

[2:29:21 - 2:29:26] ▶

talk about any sort of interbreeding between humans and aliens i got the impression that they had

[2:29:26 - 2:29:31] ▶

or that we still have the results of that so to speak on earth but um he he did mention that um

[2:29:38 - 2:29:47] ▶

they had experimented with that in the past did you ask are you the only alien race are there others

[2:29:48 - 2:29:53] ▶

yeah um thank you for reminding me of that uh yes um he said there were a lot like um i got the

[2:29:53 - 2:30:06] ▶

universe and you think we're the only two yeah so i got that impression did you ask if they have genders

[2:30:13 - 2:30:21] ▶

he interacts with family groups you know the some of the kids and the father and the and he has names

[2:31:56 - 2:32:03] ▶

for them he calls one of them a good friend that's what he calls one the teacher he calls one um something

[2:32:03 - 2:32:09] ▶

hairy it's wild um anybody he says that the ufos have bathrooms on them in the back of that craft

[2:32:09 - 2:32:17] ▶

was a restroom in the back of all the all those people are extra or real physical biological entities

[2:32:17 - 2:32:26] ▶

to the restroom so i don't know um well i mean it stands to reason i mean we're organisms and sure

[2:32:33 - 2:32:43] ▶

organisms have to eliminate yeah speaking of ufos did you ask about their mode of travel at all yeah the

[2:32:43 - 2:32:49] ▶

um it had to do with electromagnetic energy and and time um uh i think the i can't remember what it's called

[2:32:49 - 2:33:01] ▶

now the where that there's a scientist that came up with this concept of of um um pulling the ship

[2:33:01 - 2:33:13] ▶

as opposed to pushing the ship yeah sure the al cubi area yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah over the years

[2:33:13 - 2:33:19] ▶

you and you fall into that void and you keep creating the void yes bob lazar also says similar

[2:33:30 - 2:33:36] ▶

something that we don't really understand at this point did they have anything to say about the

[2:33:52 - 2:33:56] ▶

okay so towards the end of my my stay with this project i started to receive stuff that indicated

[2:35:08 - 2:35:16] ▶

accessory to the crime so to speak and who knows whether that was a crime or not i mean i don't know

[2:35:26 - 2:35:31] ▶

about the body and and and work with it and heal it and there could be so many different reasons why

[2:35:46 - 2:35:53] ▶

but why surreptitiously why not tell the the public about what's going on so at the time and of course i

[2:35:53 - 2:36:01] ▶

was uh 30. yeah around 30. it's definitely the prime of your life yeah well i believe you asked the first

[2:36:17 - 2:36:24] ▶

captain that briefed you on everything at the nsa complex why is this whole thing being kept secret

[2:36:24 - 2:36:31] ▶

and it's the same answer that everybody has that the reason why we're not being told anything is

[2:36:45 - 2:36:52] ▶

do a be a shock to the system for sure nothing else absolutely yeah

[2:37:18 - 2:37:21] ▶

was going on alien abduction wise or see any visually or anything um so the the the reason why i thought

[2:37:33 - 2:37:41] ▶

it was abductions is because of the the the um fields so to speak that i was reporting you know the

[2:37:41 - 2:37:47] ▶

some sort of it could be bad or good based on the numbers so a pain level could be good or bad so so it's

[2:38:08 - 2:38:16] ▶

abduction that's fascinating and so you were like the the like readout debrief guy or whatever without

[2:38:22 - 2:38:28] ▶

or i had assumed that the information that i was conveying was all training it was all just stuff you

[2:38:36 - 2:38:43] ▶

know that was um testing my ability to communicate and then when the that started it shifted my head

[2:38:43 - 2:38:52] ▶

you know nothing's nothing nefarious um other than the fact that you're keeping this from the world but

[2:39:25 - 2:39:31] ▶

know what you're communicating so how am i i don't know what to do here so and then when i got to the

[2:40:08 - 2:40:15] ▶

list is up yeah you're going to have to stay in so but was that the thing that gave you moral qualms

[2:40:27 - 2:40:32] ▶

about what you do i mean it is fascinating you were kind of like reporting on abductions for the

[2:40:32 - 2:40:40] ▶

where the abductions were occurring and then simultaneously presumably you have some gray

[2:40:48 - 2:40:52] ▶

human faction of you know coordinating the proverbial deep state or whatever military

[2:40:52 - 2:40:59] ▶

industrial complex coordinating on where the alien abductions are occurring levels of pain people are

[2:40:59 - 2:41:04] ▶

and i would never get an answer it was like the stonewalling and that's what led me to get all angry

[2:41:55 - 2:42:03] ▶

than i think the fact that eisenhower was actually in palm springs at the time claimed to have a dentist

[2:42:16 - 2:42:22] ▶

appointment and then the the uh sort of story is that that was covered for a meeting he had at edwards

[2:42:22 - 2:42:28] ▶

like favor and military matters uh to uh give up part of the you know american population for medical

[2:42:37 - 2:42:46] ▶

testing you know when it came to the alien presence and so that really does sound like what you're talking

[2:42:46 - 2:42:52] ▶

about maybe outside of the dates being you know early 1960s first yeah well i often wondered well

[2:42:52 - 2:42:59] ▶

the ices were doing this sure i was doing at least so i but but um it may be it may have been a test

[2:43:03 - 2:43:11] ▶

you know to test my um resolve to to you know they kind of kind of poke on the little bit of is he

[2:43:12 - 2:43:22] ▶

tree next to the roof and we were leaning out on the branches and um one of the branches snapped and

[2:44:14 - 2:44:21] ▶

i remember feeling a sense of warmth i i did i didn't feel the impact but i don't i don't think i felt it

[2:44:30 - 2:44:40] ▶

the the trauma of the i mean you don't think of you don't think of a lot of things when you're second

[2:44:57 - 2:45:02] ▶

grade but but in my memory i did not hit that ground the way i should have hit it given it was 25 feet

[2:45:02 - 2:45:10] ▶

personhood um and of course the sr 71 pilot he really encouraged me to go in the air force and um

[2:45:22 - 2:45:30] ▶

um um i have this uh in my the update of my book which i did in 2008 or something like that i have

[2:45:30 - 2:45:41] ▶

before i got it in the program you'd sense earthquakes well i can't sense an earthquake itself but i can

[2:46:06 - 2:46:13] ▶

i can i can sense when it's come on you can yeah whoa and like if if so if i'm in the in a different

[2:46:44 - 2:46:51] ▶

room and somebody has the the tv down yeah the tv screen down um i can sense when it's come on so

[2:46:51 - 2:46:57] ▶

you're hypersensitive to electro yeah oh definitely so interesting so the i think i've correlated the

[2:46:57 - 2:47:04] ▶

your blog where you predict accurately certain earthquakes based on sensations and and the only

[2:47:15 - 2:47:21] ▶

reason i did it i i had a blog um back in the early 2000s and i put on there that i don't usually say

[2:47:21 - 2:47:30] ▶

so i put in my blog i said now i'm thinking that this might be within the next couple weeks it could

[2:48:35 - 2:48:40] ▶

not because because i've i've gone through 7.5 earthquakes around the world you know before i

[2:49:08 - 2:49:14] ▶

both oh three i believe it was and in december is when the the um the indonesian earthquake happened

[2:49:21 - 2:49:29] ▶

mm-hmm and you know 250 000 people died of yeah the waves and all that stuff and well no it was four

[2:49:29 - 2:49:37] ▶

you know that that amount of time before the earthquake who knows and i haven't got anything like

[2:49:51 - 2:49:57] ▶

would say um a lot of the times but not all the time which is reason why i'm so i'm so unclear on

[2:50:13 - 2:50:22] ▶

fascinating if you could map out the correlation more i i i think maybe the more interesting thing

[2:50:28 - 2:50:33] ▶

yeah it's it's um i can definitely sense and and it actually has a lot to do well the the modern tvs yeah

[2:50:39 - 2:50:47] ▶

not so much but the tube tvs yeah those are the ones that i could really do you think if if

[2:50:47 - 2:50:51] ▶

because that will block out the electromagnetic signals so maybe that's a bit yeah say somebody

[2:50:57 - 2:51:01] ▶

next door they shared a wall you know they have an old tv in that room and they're turning on the tv

[2:51:07 - 2:51:13] ▶

know when the tv was on because when my dad would because we had an older tv and and the sound

[2:51:24 - 2:51:30] ▶

wouldn't come on with it it would it would be one of those tube tvs you know the big tubes in the

[2:51:30 - 2:51:35] ▶

back it was a big magna box and um but i i could be in a different room and i would know that when the

[2:51:35 - 2:51:43] ▶

tv came on because the sound wouldn't come up initially it would just tv would come on and warm

[2:51:43 - 2:51:48] ▶

probably but with the advent of a lot of videos being shared of people hurting themselves when somebody

[2:52:05 - 2:52:12] ▶

those because when i when when the impact yeah happens i feel it in my body my entire body does a

[2:52:29 - 2:52:37] ▶

shock when when i look at that and and it's the i think it has to do with the empathic yeah nature of

[2:52:37 - 2:52:46] ▶

i can smell somebody smoking in the car in front of me on the highway whoa i mean so interesting i

[2:53:06 - 2:53:12] ▶

it's you know there are different forms of sensing and we obviously have the the five senses

[2:53:20 - 2:53:25] ▶

but you know that like the platypus can sense electric fields for example you have lots of examples like

[2:53:26 - 2:53:32] ▶

and maybe you were literally genetically manipulated by aliens in the womb yeah to be able to sense

[2:53:38 - 2:53:42] ▶

certain things it could have ancillary um crossovers in other in other areas of the brain well that would

[2:53:42 - 2:53:50] ▶

stuff it's so cool yeah um has anything well actually we should talk about like the increased sort of

[2:54:29 - 2:54:38] ▶

bitterness towards this you're in the prime of your life you're 30 years old you know that you have all this

[2:54:38 - 2:54:43] ▶

position i don't think they're going to allow you to get out period never mind the fact you want to get

[2:55:01 - 2:55:06] ▶

that that motivation and that the the superman um the superman uh uh aspect of this you know because

[2:55:46 - 2:55:56] ▶

no longer a novelty it's just it's a drudgery and then when i get this information about the

[2:56:09 - 2:56:15] ▶

about the um abductions and it just took on a new level and i just didn't want to be a part of it

[2:56:16 - 2:56:21] ▶

anymore so how'd you get out at the time the don't ask don't tell policy was in place and um and i i was

[2:56:21 - 2:56:31] ▶

bisexual at the time and uh less so now but at the time i was and so i admitted i said i wrote a

[2:56:31 - 2:56:43] ▶

letter to my commander and i said and this was the the commander that was not in charge of me

[2:56:43 - 2:56:48] ▶

from the project perspective project preserve destiny it was my just my regular chain of command my

[2:56:49 - 2:56:56] ▶

conflict with the policy of you know no homosexuals in the military and so just want to let you know i

[2:57:13 - 2:57:20] ▶

want to be honest and then that's the paperwork started and discharge and the whole nine yards wow

[2:57:20 - 2:57:28] ▶

so the chain of command was crucial there because if if the chain of command for project preserve

[2:57:28 - 2:57:34] ▶

have just tossed the letter and and but i i purposely went through another chain of command who did not have

[2:57:40 - 2:57:47] ▶

the option of doing something like that were you relieved on the other side of of this or oh yeah

[2:57:47 - 2:57:52] ▶

um a stab in the back of the country but on the other flip side of that they were stabbing me in

[2:58:18 - 2:58:25] ▶

the back too oh yeah or at least a certain faction of the of my chain of command so it was it was

[2:58:25 - 2:58:33] ▶

claim the nsa is notorious for knowing everything about everybody per ed snowden's revelations yeah

[2:58:57 - 2:59:02] ▶

that's true um you know i do have one story um this was about maybe two years after the book came out

[2:59:02 - 2:59:12] ▶

on my cell phone and um they the producer one of the producers was just trying to find a story to you

[2:59:22 - 2:59:32] ▶

know bring on the the show and so he was asking me some questions and and so i got off the phone and i hung

[2:59:32 - 2:59:40] ▶

up the phone and i i was like wow howard stern that's got an interesting interesting little venue for

[2:59:40 - 2:59:48] ▶

and and the person on the other end of the line said drop the story don't go on howard stern and

[2:59:59 - 3:00:09] ▶

stop talking about it no way and then just hung up no way it was only about a minute after the the call

[3:00:09 - 3:00:16] ▶

so maybe they got the same call i don't know i don't know whether it was just wasn't worth it for

[3:00:20 - 3:00:24] ▶

in your phone well this was but phone probably didn't even have the number you weren't even saving

[3:00:30 - 3:00:35] ▶

very direct to the point and i think it was just a they've been monitoring the situation with my story

[3:00:41 - 3:00:50] ▶

if if they put attention to it the government says you know they arrest me let's say yeah that's me and

[3:00:55 - 3:01:02] ▶

put me up on charges um they're validating the story right so it it's almost like it's better to not

[3:01:02 - 3:01:10] ▶

just leave them alone and be among you know one amongst the stoma stigmata and yeah and the alien

[3:01:11 - 3:01:17] ▶

that nobody knows how to differentiate exactly that's the trouble i have with some of these things it's like

[3:01:17 - 3:01:22] ▶

it's self-stigmatizing and people don't have the discernment they bucket it in with the stigmata stuff

[3:01:29 - 3:01:34] ▶

variety that is the problem with the whole the whole topic yeah yeah because you don't know what to what to

[3:01:39 - 3:01:46] ▶

take serious someone to not take you really don't do you think that the nsa or powers that be know

[3:01:46 - 3:01:52] ▶

us doing this i think i've been off the grid so long that i probably have not i don't have an agent

[3:01:56 - 3:02:02] ▶

i'll let you know if i get a call okay i'll do the same yeah yeah hopefully we neither of us get dropped the story

[3:02:10 - 3:02:15] ▶

you've written your book and people come out of the woodwork and so have you met anybody who said i was

[3:02:27 - 3:02:34] ▶

met somebody who confirmed that it existed but nobody that was actually in the program no i haven't

[3:02:41 - 3:02:50] ▶

pronouncing his last name incorrectly radek noah radek well how do you spell the last name h-r-a-d-e-k

[3:02:56 - 3:03:03] ▶

probably inspired by your story to the air force and wanted to know if it was real and the air force

[3:03:11 - 3:03:17] ▶

said that's an nsa project forwarded it to the nsa and then the nsa said we can't comment on the

[3:03:18 - 3:03:24] ▶

admitting that it exists basically the modern hermeneutic reading on that is this is a real

[3:03:31 - 3:03:36] ▶

project i want to emphasize just how important this point of discussion is while at first the

[3:03:36 - 3:03:42] ▶

air force denied the existence of project preserve destiny to this independent researcher noah radek

[3:03:42 - 3:03:48] ▶

we apologize in the delay in responding after a careful review of your request we have determined

[3:04:04 - 3:04:11] ▶

that the information you are seeking falls under the purview of the nsa therefore our office has

[3:04:11 - 3:04:19] ▶

referred your request to the nsa for their processing and direct response to you why would the air force

[3:04:19 - 3:04:25] ▶

tell radek that this program fell under the purview of the nsa if the program didn't exist

[3:04:25 - 3:04:31] ▶

corroborates that project preserve destiny existed under the nsa then not only could the nsa not

[3:04:38 - 3:04:44] ▶

confirm or deny the existence of project preserve destiny they cited executive order 13526 around

[3:04:44 - 3:04:52] ▶

projects classified in the interest of national defense to quote their exact response this agency has

[3:04:52 - 3:04:59] ▶

determined that the fact of the existence or non-existence of the material you request is a

[3:04:59 - 3:05:05] ▶

denied so yes on the one hand the nsa is caveating their entire response with the existence or non-existence

[3:05:13 - 3:05:21] ▶

of project preserve destiny they're basically giving themselves an out on the program even existing but why

[3:05:21 - 3:05:27] ▶

would the non-existence of project preserve destiny cause the nsa to invoke executive order 13526 which

[3:05:27 - 3:05:35] ▶

executive order in response to a foyer request around project preserve destiny to me the air force

[3:05:41 - 3:05:47] ▶

rerouting the foyer request to the nsa actually feels like more of a smoking gun on the program's existence

[3:05:47 - 3:05:53] ▶

the nsa's response could be interpreted as a standard runaround or non-answer but i'll let my hardcore

[3:05:53 - 3:05:59] ▶

the government is this certificate granted to sherman by the nsa for satisfactory completion of the

[3:06:06 - 3:06:13] ▶

ea-280 intermediate electronics intelligence collection and analysis course again this was for the daytime

[3:06:13 - 3:06:21] ▶

course sherman attended at the nsa complex doing normal electronics intelligence training not his

[3:06:21 - 3:06:27] ▶

his presence with the nsa when he claimed to be working with them a fantastic researcher named richard

[3:06:33 - 3:06:40] ▶

geldreich did even more digging on dan sherman with an ancestry.com search the results showed that

[3:06:40 - 3:06:46] ▶

familiar it sounds like somebody told maybe you told me in in some of the communications we had i've heard

[3:07:11 - 3:07:16] ▶

that's cool though it's like probably good it's also to me it's a good signal that you reacted the

[3:07:43 - 3:07:48] ▶

interest in aliens before i knew they were aliens really than i do now why i think it's the mystery

[3:08:12 - 3:08:18] ▶

of it the mystery is what people are attracted to right um i mean obviously you know we want to know

[3:08:18 - 3:08:26] ▶

the truth yeah but um but i know the truth so you feel like you've gotten confirmation yeah so my

[3:08:26 - 3:08:32] ▶

mystery the kind of the mysterious uh the um the mystery aspect of it has vanished have you tried to

[3:08:32 - 3:08:40] ▶

tried to recreate any of the training with the tones or anything like that or no i i think they used um

[3:08:52 - 3:08:58] ▶

that they figured out and it's so interesting yeah i also think of the nsa's involvement with this

[3:09:03 - 3:09:09] ▶

stuff the modern you know the the kind of ufo research group that is you know very in the know

[3:09:09 - 3:09:18] ▶

right now as far as the the official like the modern project blue book if you will um it's called

[3:09:18 - 3:09:23] ▶

harrow the all domain anomalies resolution office okay and the current uh head of that it was a former

[3:09:23 - 3:09:30] ▶

nsa director i don't think he was like the director but he was like a director level or whatever

[3:09:30 - 3:09:35] ▶

connected with the nsa and the alien stuff but you would assume you know if the alien stuff is real

[3:09:47 - 3:09:53] ▶

which obviously i believe it is the nsa has to have a lot of entanglement with it yeah um you know

[3:09:53 - 3:09:59] ▶

was assigned to the space command and and during some of my tenure in the air force and and uh they

[3:10:10 - 3:10:18] ▶

middle school he was taken out of class and he was taken to uh space command to the an air force base

[3:11:17 - 3:11:24] ▶

with the space command center and was doing kind of intuitive communications with aliens so it definitely

[3:11:24 - 3:11:31] ▶

i think he's written a book and i think it's coming out at some point in the next year or so so

[3:11:42 - 3:11:47] ▶

into yeah well if the if the cataclysmic thing ever happens i would assume that that would be the case

[3:12:32 - 3:12:39] ▶

so so this is one of the most fascinating things about your whole story is just recently this year

[3:12:39 - 3:12:46] ▶

detail that you like you don't go into so it's like what do the authors of this periodical know

[3:13:08 - 3:13:16] ▶

trump's new agenda behind the scenes in washington there's a much darker dossier the one on ufos and

[3:13:21 - 3:13:28] ▶

the balance between the pentagon and the white house and then it goes on to describe that project as

[3:13:48 - 3:13:54] ▶

interesting this is maybe the strangest modern curveball in sherman's whole story in july of

[3:14:01 - 3:14:07] ▶

and trump's white house's involvement with it this magazine is kind of like the atlantic or rolling

[3:14:15 - 3:14:21] ▶

flirting with speculation and theatrical flair it's a serious outlet but we're not talking about the

[3:14:28 - 3:14:33] ▶

you don't dismiss it as trashy tabloid nonsense the article claims that project preserve destiny is not

[3:14:40 - 3:14:46] ▶

directly into the white house projects like project preserve destiny according to the article's

[3:14:58 - 3:15:03] ▶

anonymous sources trump sees the ufo issue as a kind of wild card a chance to brand himself as the

[3:15:03 - 3:15:10] ▶

president who finally tells americans the truth about aliens an opportunity i personally think he

[3:15:10 - 3:15:15] ▶

shouldn't pass up the article goes on to describe six levels of secrecy programs within programs

[3:15:15 - 3:15:22] ▶

the alien issue if you want to dive deeper into this mysterious trump connection and what project

[3:15:36 - 3:15:42] ▶

i'm linking it in the description below but now back to this crazy interview it's it's fascinating

[3:15:48 - 3:15:55] ▶

you know i will say that out of all the presidents that have been uh read into you know black projects

[3:15:55 - 3:16:02] ▶

and gray projects yeah i would imagine this is the one that would uh upend the the apple cart as much as

[3:16:02 - 3:16:09] ▶

certain presidents that the the status quo within the the government yeah control centers that have

[3:16:17 - 3:16:26] ▶

the criteria of that would be well you would assume somebody like a george hw bush who was director of

[3:16:34 - 3:16:39] ▶

the cia would be like of a different variety maybe than jimmy carter but they also might do it in

[3:16:39 - 3:16:45] ▶

don't do it so it who knows i mean who knows how it segues with the white house and uh is the first

[3:16:51 - 3:16:58] ▶

uh project preserve destiny base that you were at san vito normani in southern italy that is one of the

[3:16:58 - 3:17:06] ▶

bases that i was stationed okay well thank you for saying that i figured that was that was the one

[3:17:06 - 3:17:11] ▶

that was shut down so we did a little we did a little searching from the images that you you know

[3:17:11 - 3:17:16] ▶

the overseas come on researcher where's the reason you talk about the the white the white golden the

[3:17:22 - 3:17:28] ▶

about that elephant cage at the first base dan was stationed at for project preserve destiny the so-called

[3:17:44 - 3:17:50] ▶

antennas were these antennas and the signals they received somehow very important for the signals that

[3:18:17 - 3:18:24] ▶

dan himself was trying to decode for the nsa were these satellites somehow aiding in his telepathic

[3:18:24 - 3:18:31] ▶

downloads did noise cancellation technologies possibly working with the nsa in maryland provide some much

[3:18:31 - 3:18:37] ▶

needed technological assistance in filtering out the non-alien frequencies from these transmissions

[3:18:37 - 3:18:44] ▶

who knows but we do know that the cia was experimenting as early as the 60s under dr andrei puharic

[3:18:44 - 3:18:51] ▶

team of intuitive communicators he called the space kids who would constantly channel aliens puharic's

[3:19:05 - 3:19:12] ▶

who knows the entire electromagnetic wave spectrum is very very large is there some slice of it that

[3:19:18 - 3:19:25] ▶

apart but yeah do you think the vatican knows about this project um i don't know i don't know if they

[3:19:46 - 3:19:54] ▶

would have a need to know about the project yeah yeah i don't know what do you uh hope for the rest of

[3:19:54 - 3:20:02] ▶

and you know well i mean i i hope for the country that or the world really that we find um we

[3:20:06 - 3:20:14] ▶

find the truth yeah whatever that is and god knows you know today's society the truth is whatever is

[3:20:14 - 3:20:22] ▶

being fed to you at that moment sure we we don't know what the truth is um but it is my hope that

[3:20:22 - 3:20:29] ▶

we find out the actual truth behind our involvement with alien species in this in this world in our world

[3:20:29 - 3:20:37] ▶

history um i but i honestly don't think it'll ever happen yeah i honestly do not i mean the whole truth

[3:20:37 - 3:20:44] ▶

we might get we may get certain things that come out like this you know the the nasa just recently

[3:20:44 - 3:20:52] ▶

with some of these little announcements like there was already a meteor meteorite in the 90s that you know

[3:21:21 - 3:21:27] ▶

like yours in the at the nsa where you're systematically communicating with aliens this has to be some sort

[3:21:41 - 3:21:46] ▶

two people talking about the book yeah and and um just recently there has been a lot of chatter about

[3:22:21 - 3:22:29] ▶

communicate with me well i've been into it for for years now what do you think about where the ufo like

[3:22:35 - 3:22:41] ▶

disclosure stuff is now like are you tracking any of the modern ufo whistleblowers like david grush i'm

[3:22:41 - 3:22:47] ▶

better picture it was a military picture um to the extent that my name comes up every once in a while

[3:23:00 - 3:23:06] ▶

of social media i mean people people like to talk now and and whatever the topic is they want to talk

[3:23:19 - 3:23:27] ▶

the received wisdom that we're taught in schools is extremely limited oh i don't know um i've always

[3:23:40 - 3:23:50] ▶

um like that uap thing that just with the rocket i don't know you've been with that with the hellfire

[3:23:58 - 3:24:03] ▶

um only because i i've there's just been so much so much over the years that that people say well does

[3:24:16 - 3:24:25] ▶

him i think a couple times over the years um because he has a whole cadre of like whistleblowers from

[3:24:38 - 3:24:44] ▶

isn't he the one that he's the one that started that that project disclosure yeah disclosure project

[3:24:44 - 3:24:49] ▶

is talking about testimony and stuff so okay and he is in the position to get whistleblower

[3:25:07 - 3:25:13] ▶

uh immunity and all that so okay it's like somebody from the government or on the outside working with

[3:25:14 - 3:25:21] ▶

the government okay somebody on the outside but working with the government to get to the right

[3:25:21 - 3:25:26] ▶

people to give the right kind of immunity so that people can feel free to to say what they want to

[3:25:26 - 3:25:31] ▶

i would give any information that i have yeah well that's awesome and i think it's a again for the

[3:25:51 - 3:25:56] ▶

audience to hear that level of confidence yeah i mean i there's nothing if if they give me the

[3:25:56 - 3:26:02] ▶

immunity necessary so i can talk about and not worry about talking about the stuff that i you know

[3:26:02 - 3:26:08] ▶

worked on yeah ancillary to the gray project there's no reason not to i mean yeah yeah it'd be

[3:26:08 - 3:26:14] ▶

yeah this is the most nonchalant conversation i've ever had about alien telepathic communication

[3:26:21 - 3:26:27] ▶

with these sorts of stories and it's it's refreshing to just hear like uh you know these are the facts but

[3:26:35 - 3:26:40] ▶

it's been fun yeah what do you think um the final question bones and spock um what do you think they

[3:26:46 - 3:26:53] ▶

that and so when i do see hollywood project you know the aliens are just you know they're they're out to

[3:27:29 - 3:27:36] ▶

get us or whatever i don't really see that that's the case i mean imagine being so advanced that you

[3:27:36 - 3:27:44] ▶

the ones that you want them to know your existence and and be nefarious towards us there's no reason

[3:27:50 - 3:27:56] ▶

i think that they just want the best for our society and maybe that's why they haven't revealed

[3:28:03 - 3:28:09] ▶

themselves because the whole star trek uh mantra uh you know don't don't interfere in other people's

[3:28:09 - 3:28:17] ▶

if you didn't have the um uh control you know they they control things so they're going to interfere

[3:28:50 - 3:28:58] ▶

to the extent that they want to interfere yeah and they haven't they haven't chosen to interfere

[3:28:58 - 3:29:03] ▶

more than they have so well speaking of star trek it's like the prime directive minimal minimal

[3:29:03 - 3:29:09] ▶

interference with the warp drive civilization yeah exactly so that's what i was saying maybe your

[3:29:09 - 3:29:15] ▶

i am maybe slightly more optimistic than you i think we'll never get the full i think like you know the

[3:29:31 - 3:29:38] ▶

quote-unquote disclosure moment people think of in their heads is actually just the start of an

[3:29:38 - 3:29:43] ▶

but i do think we're going to get more incontrovertible evidence uh over the next you know couple of

[3:29:58 - 3:30:05] ▶

it's not practical um but to the extent that we do get information it's going to be it's going to be

[3:30:18 - 3:30:24] ▶

taking the time it really means a lot and i know you really never do this so the fact that you responded

[3:30:31 - 3:30:37] ▶

amazed at the the story but also how you tell the story and how just kind of non nonplussed in a

[3:30:43 - 3:30:50] ▶

great agreed i want to thank dan sherman for his time here and to you the audience for making it to

[3:30:57 - 3:31:04] ▶

the end again if you want a deeper dive on project preserve destiny check out our sub stack american

[3:31:04 - 3:31:09] ▶

alchemy magazine i'm linking that in the description and if you want to see this story get the airtime

[3:31:09 - 3:31:14] ▶

the chancech shortcuts as the road

[3:31:34 - 3:31:39] ▶

that i've found the area when it comes to people within mass shooting

[3:31:39 - 3:31:52] ▶

“The NSA Hired Me To Speak To Aliens!” -Sergeant Dan Sherman