the

It's this special program where basically they recruit students who they believe could be useful to whatever they're planning on doing in certain categories of the Army, whether it be medical, so forth.

[0:03:34 - 0:03:51] ▶

Kurt Vonnegut, the author.

[0:04:00 - 0:04:02] ▶

And they saw something in him all the way back in 47 when he was a medical student.

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And he very rarely, in fact, I've never even heard him mention this in all the stuff I've listened to and read about him.

[0:04:16 - 0:04:23] ▶

And that could have been his first step into that world, the military world.

[0:04:27 - 0:04:34] ▶

But that happened when he was a medical student, like way before the Roundtable Foundation, the first lab he had or anything like that.

[0:04:34 - 0:04:42] ▶

I don't know what it did exactly or, you know, what like, yeah, the day-to-day or anything.

[0:05:09 - 0:05:13] ▶

Again, Kurt Vonnegut, the author, like all these people were a part of that.

[0:05:19 - 0:05:23] ▶

Okay, so he's in the Chicago suburbs and he's a medical student.

[0:05:38 - 0:05:42] ▶

I came up with a theory of the nervous system that I called the Puharich theory.

[0:05:47 - 0:05:52] ▶

I visualized the nervous system as being embedded in the cell tissue of the body,

[0:05:54 - 0:05:58] ▶

just as the roots of a tree are embedded in the ground, which gives it nourishment.

[0:05:58 - 0:06:03] ▶

But the tree also has a similar network radiating into the sky.

[0:06:04 - 0:06:08] ▶

And there's a guy also at Northwestern at the time named Warren S. McCullough.

[0:06:28 - 0:06:33] ▶

He's like, you know, the Puharich on steroids, sort of, back then at least.

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For the audience, ESP is extrasensory perception.

[0:06:58 - 0:07:01] ▶

But he sort of took Puharich under his wing and, from what I understand, was the first person who introduced him to, you know, whatever weird science, if you want to call it that.

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And I think like, in the academic setting, he had to, you know, put on a suit and tie and like, not talk about that, basically.

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It was some bizarre archive I found years ago, making the film.

[0:08:06 - 0:08:12] ▶

And, you know, I know you had Annie Jacobson on, like she's in the film.

[0:08:12 - 0:08:16] ▶

It was part of the Puharich story.

[0:08:22 - 0:08:23] ▶

And somehow we found this like, big stash of archives of his that, again, were these letters from CIA and the Navy and everything, sort of, I guess, wanting to recruit him.

[0:08:23 - 0:08:38] ▶

But basically that, I think, triggered Puharich, got very interested in the subject.

[0:09:00 - 0:09:04] ▶

And he sort of had this moment back then where he's like, I'm either going to choose the traditional academic path or I'm going to choose the, you know, path of ESP telepathy.

[0:09:07 - 0:09:18] ▶

He was impressed by my quest for the existence of telepathy and granted me a large sum of money.

[0:09:31 - 0:09:38] ▶

Additional benefactors emerged, including the heirs to two of the wealthiest families in the world, the Astors and the DuPonts.

[0:09:39 - 0:09:46] ▶

I was able to get a barn. I started working in the dead of winter in 48th and in Maine.

[0:09:46 - 0:09:52] ▶

We lived in a big 50 room house on the seashore, which was a lab and residence and so on.

[0:09:53 - 0:10:00] ▶

It was called the Roundtable Foundation.

[0:10:00 - 0:10:02] ▶

And so he opens the Roundtable Foundation.

[0:10:03 - 0:10:06] ▶

It's on the coast of Maine, Rockland, Maine, it's called.

[0:10:17 - 0:10:20] ▶

He's got like a staff, you know, all in the thing with Puharich.

[0:10:22 - 0:10:26] ▶

I learned like he tells a different story of how the Roundtable started and how we got the money and everything to what we kind of figured out was really going on.

[0:10:26 - 0:10:39] ▶

Who funded? It was the CIA?

[0:10:44 - 0:10:45] ▶

Everyone. Army, Navy, CIA, something called the something armor foundation that was somehow tied into the army.

[0:10:45 - 0:10:57] ▶

And you think their preliminary interest was mind control, telepathy, anything beyond the purview of kind of normal materialist reductionist physics that might be able to be weaponized or confer a tactical advantage to the United States?

[0:11:18 - 0:11:33] ▶

It's complex, but yes, the short answer is yes.

[0:11:34 - 0:11:37] ▶

What are the implications?

[0:12:00 - 0:12:01] ▶

Because the story is that, you know, official American remote viewing kind of started with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ and Stanford Research Institute.

[0:12:24 - 0:12:31] ▶

Because we have like all of the round table research, which is so much.

[0:12:42 - 0:12:50] ▶

I mean, even all the time we spent on the film, it's, I still haven't looked at it at all, but they basically detail the experiments going on, which were, you know, your classic ESP stuff, you know, like the cards, all that.

[0:12:50 - 0:13:01] ▶

But no, they were doing like what would exactly the definition of like remote viewing.

[0:13:01 - 0:13:06] ▶

So who is he recruiting to do these experiments and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

[0:13:28 - 0:13:34] ▶

And when the opportunity came up to work with them, I jumped at it because it's one of the few things I actually drink before a night out with friends when it's time to celebrate a special event.

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It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for the rough days after drinking.

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Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, of course drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow.

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[0:14:44 - 0:14:49] ▶

Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash jesse and use the code jesse at checkout for 15% off.

[0:15:10 - 0:15:18] ▶

So who is he recruiting to do these experiments, and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

[0:15:22 - 0:15:28] ▶

You know, can somebody pick up on what's written on a letter in the other room?

[0:15:36 - 0:15:42] ▶

A lot of, yeah, like the card guessing.

[0:15:42 - 0:15:46] ▶

And then he obviously built a Faraday cage there, and I think, you know, was one of the first people, as far as I understand, doing ESP tests in a Faraday cage, where basically he would put people who claimed to be psychic in the cage.

[0:15:46 - 0:16:01] ▶

And it was his belief that that could sort of block out anything from the outside, and it would really help the psychic focus and be able to do what they could do.

[0:16:02 - 0:16:11] ▶

And he had, I mean, Aldous Huxley would go to the Roundtable Foundation, right?

[0:16:11 - 0:16:16] ▶

And obviously, Aldous Huxley is known probably best for a lot of his science fiction work, but also, you know, the Doors of Perception, where he talks about his experience with Mescaline.

[0:16:16 - 0:16:27] ▶

And then, you know, if you really get into the maybe deeper kind of architectures of his thinking, like in perennial philosophy, he's like clearly this kind of deep esotericist.

[0:16:27 - 0:16:37] ▶

And so he was hanging out at the Roundtable Foundation, too.

[0:16:38 - 0:16:41] ▶

In fact, on Buharic's book, The Sacred Mushroom, which is how I got into this whole thing.

[0:16:42 - 0:16:49] ▶

And, you know, what's the book?

[0:16:55 - 0:16:57] ▶

DMT, The Spirit Molecule.

[0:16:58 - 0:16:59] ▶

And I came across The Sacred Mushroom, Buharic's book, which is very interesting.

[0:17:01 - 0:17:06] ▶

The premise is basically, you know, and this was also the research he was doing at the Roundtable, was, you know, taking a certain type of mushroom.

[0:17:11 - 0:17:20] ▶

In this instance, the Amanita muscaria, you know, gives people ESP abilities, and they did extensive research on that there.

[0:17:20 - 0:17:28] ▶

But on the cover of that book, you know, Aldous Huxley gives a blurb for Buharic and calls him, you know, the greatest mind in parapsychology.

[0:17:28 - 0:17:36] ▶

He was there all the time.

[0:17:38 - 0:17:39] ▶

And the Amanita muscaria mushroom is a very interesting mushroom.

[0:17:47 - 0:17:50] ▶

It's the kind of archetypal, you know, emoji on all of our, you know, cell phones or iPhones, at least.

[0:17:50 - 0:17:56] ▶

But it also, I believe, John Marco Allegro, who was, you know, a scholar of various, you know, ancient languages, he came to the very heretical conclusion that the Eucharist itself was an Amanita muscaria mushroom.

[0:17:56 - 0:18:13] ▶

And so the actual transubstantiation involved this, like, mushroom.

[0:18:13 - 0:18:17] ▶

And that maybe what Jesus underwent was some sort of kind of pagan mystery ritual that allowed him to sort of gain the magical powers that he achieved in the book of Acts.

[0:18:17 - 0:18:28] ▶

And so I assume that must have, because I think the name of his book is similar.

[0:18:37 - 0:18:41] ▶

It's the sacred mushroom in the cross or something.

[0:18:41 - 0:18:43] ▶

But at the time, it was like, you know, controversial because basically people just didn't believe in what he was writing.

[0:18:56 - 0:19:04] ▶

And that, I think, kind of kick-started the, you know, way people looked at Buharic as being, you know, kind of like a kook.

[0:19:04 - 0:19:12] ▶

Clearly, but he was, he also was amongst, he was kind of a pioneer and had a few peers who were also at the forefront of their fields.

[0:19:16 - 0:19:24] ▶

People like Albert Hoffman, Karl Ruck, and Stanislav Grof, who thought of themselves as creating what they called the new Eleusis, based on kind of, you know, past mystery rituals, the Eleusinian mystery rituals.

[0:19:24 - 0:19:36] ▶

You know, you go down, you descend to the underworld and you come back up and you, you know, you gain knowledge of your primordial soul.

[0:19:44 - 0:19:51] ▶

We are the positive principles of the cosmos.

[0:20:01 - 0:20:08] ▶

The very first time that I heard about the nine was through Dr. Vinod.

[0:20:20 - 0:20:26] ▶

They call themselves, these beings, the nine.

[0:20:42 - 0:20:45] ▶

But what is the nine?

[0:20:45 - 0:20:47] ▶

We're more like laws or principles of the universe.

[0:20:52 - 0:20:55] ▶

The part of Buharic's story where I think things sort of change in his life is when, you know, this instance happens when they first channel the nine, which was in 52.

[0:20:56 - 0:21:12] ▶

He came to the round table again through recommendation of somebody Buharic was working with.

[0:21:30 - 0:21:36] ▶

And the story goes, he shows up in Maine, goes to the round table foundation.

[0:21:36 - 0:21:42] ▶

And the first night he's there, he just unexpectedly falls into a trance.

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Someone grabs a tape recorder, which we have the tapes of.

[0:21:52 - 0:21:55] ▶

And he goes into a trance and he just starts speaking, you know, saying, you know, we are the nine and where we're coming through to you now.

[0:21:55 - 0:22:05] ▶

But that's how the story goes of how the nine first appear as basically this guy, Vinod.

[0:22:22 - 0:22:28] ▶

So the interesting thing about this guy, Dr. Vinod was his name.

[0:22:29 - 0:22:34] ▶

So this was something I learned like way later into the process of the film.

[0:22:39 - 0:22:42] ▶

And he was on a tour at the time in the United States going to like rotary clubs and dinner parties,

[0:23:01 - 0:23:09] ▶

His version of the story is this guy, they just randomly came in, fell into a trance, no context, you know, never mentions it.

[0:23:34 - 0:23:42] ▶

The nine first comes through, through this guy.

[0:24:01 - 0:24:04] ▶

I think that's where the conspiracy starts as far as what people believe to be like, I guess, a psyop.

[0:24:07 - 0:24:14] ▶

No, I want to get into the psyop elements of it.

[0:24:19 - 0:24:22] ▶

But basically, so what did the nine say?

[0:25:10 - 0:25:12] ▶

It was 94, literally the year before Buharic died slash was found dead mysteriously.

[0:25:44 - 0:25:51] ▶

Because at the time, Dick Russell was wanting to write like a definitive book about MK Ultra.

[0:25:53 - 0:25:59] ▶

And in fact, he has one of the only interviews, as far as I know, with Sidney Gottlieb.

[0:26:02 - 0:26:07] ▶

But just for the audience real quick, because I know we're getting into what the nine said.

[0:26:21 - 0:26:25] ▶

But Sidney Gottlieb was known as the kind of U.S. version of Joseph Mengele, a poisoner in chief, an architect of MK Ultra from the technical staff services.

[0:26:25 - 0:26:35] ▶

So what are the nine saying?

[0:26:38 - 0:26:39] ▶

So, yeah, it's a lot of the sort of usual, I guess, channeling talk where there's this idea that there's been this surveillance of Earth.

[0:26:40 - 0:26:57] ▶

And that they've been monitoring Earth and they've been seeing the negative things happening.

[0:26:57 - 0:27:04] ▶

The general message is this idea that they are wanting to help the human race, you know, basically not destroy itself.

[0:27:12 - 0:27:20] ▶

This, you know, goes on way through the 70s when Buharic, the nine come back.

[0:27:21 - 0:27:27] ▶

That would, the nine, meaning Vinod in a trance, speaking as the nine.

[0:27:48 - 0:27:53] ▶

I mean, I, I'm just making the film.

[0:28:06 - 0:28:08] ▶

They would say the nine, they would say, you know, okay, look, you're contacting us through a psychic.

[0:28:15 - 0:28:23] ▶

But if you want a clearer feed of a clearer transmission, you have to put the psychic in a Faraday cage.

[0:28:23 - 0:28:31] ▶

And on top of that, you should tweak the Faraday cage and build it this way and use this type of metal and use this.

[0:28:31 - 0:28:40] ▶

They were, they were telling him and constructing him how to like build the Faraday cage in a specific way that would like help this transmission.

[0:28:40 - 0:28:50] ▶

And it did because you can hear the tapes.

[0:28:50 - 0:28:53] ▶

And then when they did the Faraday cage sessions, it was like, just boom, they would talk.

[0:28:56 - 0:29:01] ▶

So they were basically like following instructions from the nine.

[0:29:24 - 0:29:29] ▶

And you see the results get better as far as their channeling.

[0:29:29 - 0:29:32] ▶

You see the results get better.

[0:29:32 - 0:29:34] ▶

It's like the, literally like the transmissions are coming.

[0:29:48 - 0:29:50] ▶

And the other thing too, was again, it was this copper, this thing with copper, where they would also say, okay, what you need to do is you need to get the, this is really crazy.

[0:29:59 - 0:30:11] ▶

And so you would, you would need some sort of like bracelet or something that would kind of like constantly be touching your skin in order again, for like the, the transmission to be better.

[0:30:18 - 0:30:31] ▶

And what's crazy is, uh, one of the space kids that I met and that we interviewed for the film, she whipped out this, uh, this was, you know, only a couple of years ago.

[0:30:32 - 0:30:43] ▶

So the copper thing is strange.

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And that's the other thing to me, you know, being a little skeptical, I was like, well, someone of Puharic's, uh, you know, academic abilities, like clearly he, he, he wouldn't take the time.

[0:30:59 - 0:31:12] ▶

And the energy, like to look into this stuff as deep as he did, you know, like he like obsessed over this, he would go meet other academics.

[0:31:12 - 0:31:20] ▶

And Phyllis Schlamer, who later wrote the only planet of choice, which channels the nine.

[0:31:28 - 0:31:34] ▶

I think she talks about the nine with respect to messages around the earth being a bottleneck of consciousness.

[0:31:34 - 0:31:41] ▶

One thing that they were doing at the round table, uh, were, was that this psychic, uh, this one particular psychic would, would claim that at a certain time of night, uh, they would see an orb.

[0:31:54 - 0:32:07] ▶

And they would go outside by the ocean and they would see orbs.

[0:32:07 - 0:32:12] ▶

And the only, you know, evidence I, I have is Buharic's own writing, cause we have all of his journals and he writes this in his journals where he literally says like this psychic would just blur it out.

[0:32:13 - 0:32:23] ▶

And he, he, he did many experiments where he allegedly took photos, which of course, you know, weren't in the big stash of photos we had from back then.

[0:32:41 - 0:32:51] ▶

There's some, seems like there's some sort of correlation there. The connection Lavenda makes is that all these people conducting the seance, bringing in these nine, maybe extraterrestrial beings, maybe beings that go to the

[0:33:14 - 0:33:28] ▶

nine Egyptian, uh, gods or whatever. We don't exactly know what these nine beings are, but it's like a council. And, and later the nine praise plays prominently because this channel or Phyllis Schlamer, uh, like gets all these messages from the nine along with a lot of the kids and stuff.

[0:33:28 - 0:33:45] ▶

Yeah. But, but that, that all of the people in this original seance with these blue blooded elites are also entangled with the JFK assassination, which is so crazy.

[0:33:45 - 0:33:55] ▶

To make a long story short, there's a seance that's held in, uh, late 52, early 53. I think it was the New Year's Eve of 52 to 53. And there are nine people involved in the seance. Now, these are not just some casual nine people you pick up, like, you know, your neighbors or something, right? This was a DuPont and an Astor and a Forbes. I mean, everybody that represents the, the blue blooded Brahmins of American society, old money people, were at a seance, a free

[0:33:55 - 0:34:25] ▶

freaking seance, right? In the woods, in Maine on New Year's Eve with Andrea Paharic. And one of them, uh, is the guy who was the inventor of the bell helicopter. Right. So.

[0:34:25 - 0:34:38] ▶

So in that seance with the, you know, these kind of blue blooded elites that prove her itches convening,

[0:34:58 - 0:35:03] ▶

I think one of the people who's close with Mary Bancroft, who's Dulles' mistress,

[0:35:04 - 0:35:08] ▶

And so she's a Forbes first. So again, going to the blue blooded elite thing.

[0:35:12 - 0:35:16] ▶

And Lee Harvey Oswald is living with Ruth Payne. And I think gets a job at the Texas Book Depository

[0:35:23 - 0:35:30] ▶

And then ends up, you know, maybe not being the lone gunman, but, you know, attempting JFK's life.

[0:35:34 - 0:35:42] ▶

She gets him the job at the Texas School Book Depository.

[0:35:57 - 0:36:01] ▶

And so it's these weird entanglements where, and the nine believed themselves to be sort of agents,

[0:36:02 - 0:36:09] ▶

or sorry, the group in the seance believed themselves to be agents of these extraterrestrials,

[0:36:09 - 0:36:14] ▶

be bringing about world peace and that the nine would speak to him through his watch and stuff.

[0:36:21 - 0:36:26] ▶

the assassination of JFK was good. He seemed like a great man who was resisting really dark forces.

[0:36:31 - 0:36:37] ▶

Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy tried to teleport a ship in what's now known as the Philadelphia Experiment.

[0:36:44 - 0:36:53] ▶

It disappeared, reappeared, and then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls.

[0:36:56 - 0:37:01] ▶

And you know who was leading the whole project?

[0:37:08 - 0:37:10] ▶

My favorite, the mid-century anti-gravity inventor Thomas Townsend Brown, who literally had a

[0:37:10 - 0:37:16] ▶

nervous breakdown that year due to the very poor communication among the team members.

[0:37:16 - 0:37:21] ▶

you know the absolute horror of losing people to the ether.

[0:37:37 - 0:37:41] ▶

That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the smarter way to

[0:37:42 - 0:37:47] ▶

Make this the year where no opportunity and no customer slips away.

[0:38:10 - 0:38:14] ▶

Now back to the show.

[0:38:30 - 0:38:31] ▶

This, yeah, this woman who I got to know very well, who's in the film, she was Puharic's

[0:38:37 - 0:38:43] ▶

And starting in, I think, 63, basically she worked with him, I think until like the mid-80s.

[0:38:46 - 0:38:54] ▶

But basically, she told me a story that she was working at Intellectron the day JFK was

[0:39:20 - 0:39:28] ▶

assassinated and that these men in suits, she says, came into the offices, went into Puharic's

[0:39:28 - 0:39:36] ▶

And she said the whole rest of the day Puharic was out of sorts.

[0:39:41 - 0:39:44] ▶

This could be as simple as, you know, how horrible that the president was shot or it could have

[0:39:46 - 0:39:52] ▶

But to finish the nine thing, basically, the roundtable ends in 57, I think, right?

[0:39:59 - 0:40:06] ▶

Meaning, for whatever reason, I mean, I think I know the reason.

[0:40:06 - 0:40:10] ▶

But he claims that we ran out of funding, the benefactors lost interest, and it shut down.

[0:40:15 - 0:40:21] ▶

But all the while, he was getting money from the army.

[0:40:22 - 0:40:24] ▶

But so the nine stopped, allegedly.

[0:40:26 - 0:40:31] ▶

But a lot of the early nine-related conspiracies start around that time, too, with this idea

[0:40:34 - 0:40:42] ▶

And a lot of people think that that was like the nine.

[0:40:56 - 0:40:59] ▶

But really, the Korean War is like when, you know, conventionally it's dated to.

[0:41:30 - 0:41:34] ▶

And the idea that they were that sophisticated at the very start of MKUltra where they could convince these sort of elite members of society that they were in touch with these specific extraterrestrial beings.

[0:41:35 - 0:41:46] ▶

And that those extraterrestrial beings were constructing Faraday chambers that were able to like make the messages they received more effective.

[0:41:46 - 0:41:56] ▶

Like this elaborate sort of magic trick that seems a little beyond the pale to me.

[0:41:56 - 0:42:01] ▶

The years and years I research.

[0:42:06 - 0:42:08] ▶

Like a lot of people I talk to who are interested in this stuff and know about the film and so forth.

[0:42:10 - 0:42:15] ▶

Like they think that I know all the answers and I, I, I even, I wish I did.

[0:42:15 - 0:42:21] ▶

I just don't, you know, I know what was in the archives.

[0:42:27 - 0:42:29] ▶

And a lot of the film for me was like, okay, what, what do we know?

[0:42:29 - 0:42:35] ▶

And so it was really just like, okay, here's the transcripts.

[0:42:37 - 0:42:40] ▶

Speaking of what are the facts?

[0:42:41 - 0:42:43] ▶

Like, so yours is the implication of this story that this company had something to do with the assassination of JFK or like, were these men in tweed suits raiding the office, the CIA?

[0:42:46 - 0:42:57] ▶

So, so, so Puharich, yeah, he leaves the round table, he moves to New York city or he moves to Ossining.

[0:43:03 - 0:43:13] ▶

It's, you know, an hour on the train North of the city, you know, mad men, of course, the show, like I didn't even realize all the characters, they all live in Ossining.

[0:43:18 - 0:43:26] ▶

He tells his family that basically he just got this contract to study basically more of what was going on at the round table foundation.

[0:43:43 - 0:43:51] ▶

Jenny had quietly leapt from the hospital roof into eternity.

[0:44:14 - 0:44:19] ▶

He gets a grant for $300,000, which at the time would have been like at least a million dollars or more from the Atomic Energy Commission, which is strange.

[0:44:53 - 0:45:07] ▶

And we have all the documents that we found that prove that they went and visited him.

[0:45:08 - 0:45:12] ▶

This one being the really the first, but it was sort of the roundtable to where like all of a sudden he just has this company and this and the and these employees and this fund, you know, all of a sudden it's just, you know, kind of expensive to have a big office in New York City.

[0:45:33 - 0:45:49] ▶

And all this stuff and all this state of the art at the time, electronic equipment.

[0:45:49 - 0:45:53] ▶

This is when he starts the hearing experiments where basically he claims that deaf people would come into the office and they would do research on them.

[0:46:07 - 0:46:24] ▶

And basically they designed a device which would enable deaf people to to to hear basically by emitting a certain frequency that would somehow bypass like the normal way we hear and go directly to the hearing center in the brain.

[0:46:24 - 0:46:41] ▶

But that's when he first starts this whole, you know, radio frequency stuff, voices in the head kind of stuff, which again was under this, you know, we're researching on deaf people.

[0:46:53 - 0:47:05] ▶

Again, almost everyone that was involved at the round table was back in this intellectron situation with him.

[0:47:22 - 0:47:28] ▶

And so that I think the connection, I mean, I don't want to just jump to conclusions, but I think what I've often thought with this JFK thing and why to Melanie his assistant seemed like such a big deal is that it may have had some tie in with a mind control, sort of like a Sirhan Sirhan situation with Lee Harvey Oz.

[0:47:28 - 0:47:54] ▶

The people from the Atomic Energy Commission write very clearly in letters we found, like we went, Annie Jacobson talks about it, I think in her book, like one of the guys is like, I don't believe you, you know, test me and just, and, and, and did the test on himself and it worked.

[0:48:26 - 0:48:41] ▶

And then it goes, it goes dark and Intellectron closes and all of a sudden it's onto the next sort of, you know, mysterious company.

[0:48:41 - 0:48:53] ▶

I haven't looked, but I just think, you know, if you want to go there, it's like, like Lavenda says the whole connection there at the round table.

[0:49:06 - 0:49:13] ▶

And then this weird incident where they seem to make a big deal about telling him about the assassination at that exact time, that exact year, they're researching ways to, to be able to send messages to someone's mind to do something specific, Manchurian candidate, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:49:13 - 0:49:30] ▶

Apparently Dulles did not want the fact that Ruth Payne had actually been at the summer house or whatever.

[0:49:30 - 0:49:38] ▶

If you, you know, if you, the intersection of capabilities, motivation to, to take out JFK, Dulles has to be on anybody's short list.

[0:50:01 - 0:50:09] ▶

I mean, like 95%, you know, like you have letters between Jolly West and Sydney Gottlieb, who's definitely the kind of archivist.

[0:50:18 - 0:50:26] ▶

Well, the other really strange thing at this time, um, was that Pujaric was working with someone named Jose Delgado, who he probably might know who that is.

[0:51:06 - 0:51:18] ▶

Delgado, an old friend of ours, brilliant researcher from Spain, implanted radio receivers in the heads of bulls.

[0:51:18 - 0:51:27] ▶

Delgado has remote control of the animal.

[0:51:27 - 0:51:29] ▶

Do you realize the fantastic possibilities if from the outside we could modify the inside?

[0:51:29 - 0:51:37] ▶

Could we give messages to the inside?

[0:51:37 - 0:51:40] ▶

Uh, he was involved with a lot of this sort of mind stuff in the sixties, late fifties sixties.

[0:51:43 - 0:51:50] ▶

But I think he's mostly known as somebody who, uh, did experiments with implanting, putting an implant in the head of a bull and basically being able to remote control a bull and basically say, go this stop, go left, go right.

[0:51:50 - 0:52:06] ▶

There's literally footage of, of the experiment happening.

[0:52:08 - 0:52:11] ▶

We found letters between the two of them, uh, during this time.

[0:52:20 - 0:52:24] ▶

I mean, there's some people I met during the process of this who were like, don't, don't even go there and don't talk about the connection you had with Delgado.

[0:52:33 - 0:52:42] ▶

You have a guy who's being able to pacify a bull and play the bull like a video game.

[0:52:47 - 0:52:53] ▶

And that clearly was the heir to MK ultra, which was mostly sodium pentothal LSD, that sort of thing is chemical based.

[0:52:53 - 0:53:00] ▶

And if, if, if, if in the early sixties, we had chips that could control animals and you had heirs to MK ultra, like MK often.

[0:53:02 - 0:53:10] ▶

Which were done. I believe at the science and engineering Institute, um, in the Northeast as well.

[0:53:11 - 0:53:15] ▶

Cause the second you do think about it, you get into reality being far weirder than we could ever imagine.

[0:53:25 - 0:53:32] ▶

So, yeah, if you think, okay, they're putting an implant in the head of a bull, like you say, basically remote controlling the thing.

[0:53:32 - 0:53:39] ▶

I don't have a document that says here's the experiment we did, but, um, that whole decade of the sixties was such a, a, a, a odd decade for Buharachi was so like quiet.

[0:53:56 - 0:54:09] ▶

Like all there's all these records of the round table, you know, tapes, photos, everything.

[0:54:09 - 0:54:15] ▶

And all of a sudden you get to the sixties.

[0:54:15 - 0:54:16] ▶

And all of a sudden the seventies boom picks back up.

[0:54:23 - 0:54:25] ▶

And the other thing too, not to cut you off is I I've, with all this stuff in this film, I've gone to like the ends of the earth to try to track down.

[0:54:40 - 0:54:49] ▶

You would not find the only thing I ever found was there was a guy, a pretty interesting guy actually.

[0:54:54 - 0:54:59] ▶

He was, uh, involved, uh, in NASA in the sixties, early seventies colleague of Buharach's, but he was like, I guess.

[0:55:00 - 0:55:08] ▶

And that was like the only thing I could find.

[0:55:25 - 0:55:28] ▶

Well, it's, I mean, now I feel like it's one of these things that's slowly shifting, you know, and I think more and more people are going to start to recognize the fact that MK ultra had a role, not only in the JFK assassination, but in the RFK assassination, you mentioned Sirhan Sirhan.

[0:55:46 - 0:56:02] ▶

Um, and you have RFK junior now is head of the FDA.

[0:56:20 - 0:56:23] ▶

I think he was 14 at the time.

[0:56:28 - 0:56:30] ▶

And I think he recognizes that he was actually shot from the back and not from the front.

[0:56:30 - 0:56:36] ▶

You know, this guy, William Jennings Bryan, not to be confused with the 1890s.

[0:56:43 - 0:56:47] ▶

And there's even a book called, I don't know if you know about this book, the controllers by Martin Cannon.

[0:57:04 - 0:57:09] ▶

What, what's the, what's the thesis of this book?

[0:57:14 - 0:57:16] ▶

Uh, as you know, a lot of the guests I sit down with, whether they're physicists, intelligence officers, people who've worked inside black programs are operating at a really impressive level mentally.

[0:57:16 - 0:57:30] ▶

This massive difference between the ordinary broken and limited healthcare system and what elite people are doing to track their health.

[0:57:52 - 0:58:01] ▶

The beautiful thing is they make elite level healthcare accessible.

[0:58:03 - 0:58:07] ▶

Each test builds on the last.

[0:58:40 - 0:58:42] ▶

Make this the year you stop guessing about your health and you start getting serious with superpower.

[0:58:46 - 0:58:52] ▶

So please make sure to mention American Alchemy to support the show.

[0:59:12 - 0:59:16] ▶

What's the thesis of this book?

[0:59:18 - 0:59:20] ▶

It's basically about this idea of the fabrication of alien abductions, right?

[0:59:20 - 0:59:27] ▶

We can go, we can get to that later, but the whole in electron thing, basically to cap that off, it was, yeah.

[0:59:41 - 0:59:49] ▶

You can see, you know, she's in the other room.

[1:00:13 - 1:00:15] ▶

She's behind a wall there in the other room.

[1:00:15 - 1:00:18] ▶

He has his device that he invented in the early sixties called the TD 100, which I've told you about.

[1:00:18 - 1:00:24] ▶

And this kind of ties into what he was doing later in the seventies, but they're doing an experiment on a woman using this.

[1:00:43 - 1:00:49] ▶

One of the things he invented back then too, which again was Puharich says himself was classified.

[1:01:07 - 1:01:13] ▶

And you've probably heard of this as the tooth implant.

[1:01:13 - 1:01:17] ▶

A device could be inserted into one of your back molars that acted as a transducer that could send signals across the facial nerves into the hearing centers of the brain.

[1:01:17 - 1:01:31] ▶

We gave a demonstration at the Pentagon.

[1:01:53 - 1:01:58] ▶

And we had somebody out in the hall broadcasting.

[1:02:01 - 1:02:05] ▶

The bastards did it.

[1:02:10 - 1:02:12] ▶

It would pick it up here and it would send it through the nerves of the face that would basically connect to whatever area in your brain you register, you know, sounds.

[1:02:41 - 1:02:51] ▶

Like I said, a woman right across the room.

[1:03:00 - 1:03:02] ▶

So you can imagine if the research continued, at what length can this go?

[1:03:05 - 1:03:10] ▶

But so the first part of it was the tooth where you could send the message to the tooth implant, hear it in the head.

[1:03:18 - 1:03:24] ▶

And the second part was an offshoot of that where basically, from what I understand, you sort of just bypass the whole tooth thing.

[1:03:24 - 1:03:33] ▶

But it was this idea that again, you would bypass the tooth and the, and the, and the frequency would essentially just be sent directly to the head and be picked up in that same area that the tooth was essentially connecting to.

[1:04:00 - 1:04:13] ▶

Just to also substantiate what you're saying to the audience who might think we're crazy.

[1:04:14 - 1:04:18] ▶

Where he would bite onto a conductive rod while he was playing piano that would bypass his ear canal and the vibrations would literally play in his brain.

[1:04:25 - 1:04:35] ▶

It's in the telepathy tapes.

[1:04:54 - 1:04:55] ▶

And she had gotten a tooth filling or whatever, and she's driving and she starts to hear the radio in her head because she still has some metal in her teeth.

[1:04:56 - 1:05:02] ▶

And they put the mental patient in their Faraday cage, which blocks out all electronic signals.

[1:05:54 - 1:06:01] ▶

And the mental patient suddenly is no longer hearing voices, is like perfectly sane.

[1:06:01 - 1:06:10] ▶

And sure enough, soon as we locked the door, the sound ceased. Opened the door, the sound would come on.

[1:06:10 - 1:06:16] ▶

That's pretty remarkable of Puharich to think that all through and to test it in the laboratory.

[1:06:16 - 1:06:23] ▶

Yeah. And if you can bypass the ear canal with vibration, whatever is processing the audio ultimately in the brain, we know that you can turn molecular mass into frequency.

[1:06:35 - 1:06:46] ▶

Yeah. Could you then use some sort of electromagnetic, you know, radio wave or some wave that connects directly to the brain and that kind of gets in a freaky territory because you end up in sort of psychic warfare, you know, that's ubiquitous or whatever in widespread.

[1:06:51 - 1:07:11] ▶

Yeah. And you texted me when you saw the interview because you said it, you felt like it kind of comported with a lot of the stuff you had been studying around.

[1:07:22 - 1:07:30] ▶

Yeah. Puharich. If Puharich is doing this stuff in the sixties, then it kind of makes me believe the Sherman stuff a whole lot more, which was happening.

[1:07:30 - 1:07:40] ▶

In the early nineties around messages he's downloading, but it, maybe it does beget the question, you know, is the Sherman stuff genuinely, you know, extraterrestrial or were people beaming messages that were extraterrestrial to test the veracity of the messaging or whatever through him. And I don't know, you know, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think he was lying. And I think the program is real.

[1:07:40 - 1:08:06] ▶

The Genesis of it was in 1947. We came in contact with an alien species and in 1960, they started a, a project. It was called project preserve destiny. And, um, it was designed to genetically manage fetuses, human fetuses, so that they would have the heightened ability to do this particular thing that I was going to school for.

[1:08:06 - 1:08:32] ▶

And he said, I'm going to play a tone and I want you to mentally hum that tone. And he said that you will eventually feel a connection. The line will change.

[1:08:32 - 1:08:44] ▶

Mm. When I saw the sine wave move.

[1:08:44 - 1:08:47] ▶

I'd have to imagine it was. And that's always the question, you know,

[1:09:04 - 1:09:08] ▶

Yeah. When I saw the, the, the, uh, sine wave move, it, it is like, it came into focus. This thing that, that I was doing in my head.

[1:09:12 - 1:09:20] ▶

That's why I, that's why I reached out because again, like for me, a lot of this was, okay, I have all this information. I'm not a, you know, I'm not a, a physicist. I'm not a, most of this stuff, but I'd have to imagine it's connected because it, um, Puharic, the way this machine worked as well, had something to do with specific sine waves. Very, very specific.

[1:09:20 - 1:09:43] ▶

Yeah. It's all tone. It's all tones. And then the thing with the machine is again, um, and like you said, sounding crazy, like for a long time making this film, you know, like I had to,

[1:10:01 - 1:10:13] ▶

You're right. I mean, I think like if that was happening in 60, 61, 62, I mean, I don't know. And this gets transitions into the Uri Geller stuff, which I believe is very much involved in that same sort of research.

[1:10:40 - 1:10:56] ▶

Explain that story. That's fascinating. Well, he, um, so basically Puharich, uh, in the six years, we had Intellectron.

[1:11:20 - 1:11:30] ▶

And the thing is too, with this device, he invented the TD 100, it was called, which was called transdermal 100.

[1:11:30 - 1:11:36] ▶

But, um, again, this was supposed to be this breakthrough, you know, medical device where, where people who are deaf can, can hear, you know, the, the, think about what we could do with this.

[1:11:37 - 1:11:50] ▶

Of course we learned he was using it with the space kids years later that nobody knew about that, but, um, so he's the, he's coming off the tail end of all the in Electron stuff. Right. Right. When he meets Geller, like literally it was 1970 is when he first hears about Geller goes to Israel.

[1:12:11 - 1:12:29] ▶

And Intellectron is still happening then. I mean, from what I understand, like it was still very much, you know, an operating company. So he's going to Israel to meet Uri Geller while he's still very much involved in the research of essentially sending messages to people.

[1:12:29 - 1:12:48] ▶

And he gets to Israel. He discovers Uri Geller. I mean, I think a lot of people know this story, but you know, Geller was, was allegedly this very, uh, amazing psychic guy who could bend, bend spoons with his mind and read people's minds and do all sorts of things like that. He could like, uh, hover his hand over a watch and the, and it would, uh, the hands would move and, and all these kinds of things. And so.

[1:12:48 - 1:13:14] ▶

He did bend a spoon for us when we did the interview and I don't know how he did it.

[1:13:23 - 1:13:28] ▶

You know, the easy debunks on things like that.

[1:13:34 - 1:13:37] ▶

And he did do it, but, um, he, so Buharic, you know, again, the story goes, Buharic was kind of smitten with, with Geller and oh my God, this guy's, you know, an amazing psychic.

[1:13:44 - 1:13:54] ▶

But he, uh, he, uh, has this whole episode in Israel before he even brings him back to the United States, where he basically hypnotizes Geller and, you know, the nine come through.

[1:14:08 - 1:14:20] ▶

Uh, he starts channeling the nine, Uri Geller.

[1:14:31 - 1:14:34] ▶

The whole nine thing comes back into the picture through, through Uri Geller.

[1:14:50 - 1:14:54] ▶

But it's very strange because Buharic, as I just said, was still very much involved in the Intellectron company, which, as we know, was experimenting with being able to send voices, send thoughts, uh, to people.

[1:15:03 - 1:15:19] ▶

And so one could assume that Uri Geller was a, you know, experiment in that way when the nine just so happened to reappear all those years later.

[1:15:20 - 1:15:31] ▶

What, what were the connections besides you're a yeller, obviously?

[1:15:59 - 1:16:02] ▶

and like basically got nothing but the only thing we were able to get was this big chunk of fbi

[1:16:11 - 1:16:16] ▶

uh he just got here he's leaving he picked this bag up he did you know in the exact years he's um

[1:16:22 - 1:16:29] ▶

write these letters to her all the time it's very clear that they were close you know he spoke with

[1:17:08 - 1:17:12] ▶

uh for for the israelis and and he also was always there you know that's the other thing like yes he

[1:17:52 - 1:17:59] ▶

went to to to investigate geller but you know he was even through the 80s like well after him and

[1:17:59 - 1:18:06] ▶

geller kind of parted ways he's always going there um on a lot of the channeling tapes that are happening

[1:18:06 - 1:18:13] ▶

in the 70s with the space kids he's he's referring by name to israeli generals this one guy uh aharon

[1:18:13 - 1:18:21] ▶

yariv who was i think the head of army intelligence very you can look him up i mean he was constantly

[1:18:21 - 1:18:28] ▶

the nine again is it like the nine are somehow like he has a protocol to like summon these specific nine

[1:19:07 - 1:19:15] ▶

stories right so when he went to israel for the first time in some lecture uh we have he said oh you

[1:19:42 - 1:19:49] ▶

how i got there right and then geller himself said oh yeah no he he was sent by the cia like directly

[1:20:00 - 1:20:07] ▶

buharach when he he kind of tells the story to an audience you know and he says oh yeah they just you

[1:20:20 - 1:20:25] ▶

okay who's who's telling the truth you know yeah i think it's obvious but um right with the nine i mean

[1:20:30 - 1:20:36] ▶

so yeah it all did come from from uh hypnosis that was the protocol it was a very you know your typical

[1:20:36 - 1:20:44] ▶

darker parts of the story like i do think uh to some extent like he was implanting this idea

[1:20:58 - 1:21:08] ▶

because you can you i mean you can hear it i mean again this isn't like speculation like on the tapes

[1:21:08 - 1:21:15] ▶

you can very much hear him saying you know is is it the not you know the type of like leading

[1:21:15 - 1:21:21] ▶

this and it was it was it was that it was very leading questions and are you sure it's not the nine

[1:21:27 - 1:21:32] ▶

there's a lot of other sessions he did where it was like not like that at all the complete opposite

[1:21:38 - 1:21:43] ▶

you know not leading at all and the nine would still come through yeah so that's interesting yeah

[1:21:43 - 1:21:49] ▶

and that always goes back to the crux of who harich of like okay what what was he yes he believed in

[1:21:49 - 1:21:55] ▶

clearly he was manipulative somewhat yeah i usually get to the end of these questions thinking it's

[1:22:08 - 1:22:14] ▶

think of the archimedes lever of reality itself and its mind control right like that would explain like

[1:22:25 - 1:22:31] ▶

aliens reverse engineer like so many things um but then you you get into like the facts and the

[1:22:31 - 1:22:38] ▶

origin point of the roundtable foundation like he was researching this stuff back then like this very

[1:23:18 - 1:23:25] ▶

specific extremely low frequency that can he figured out like penetrate the walls of a faraday cage that

[1:23:25 - 1:23:34] ▶

was like the only uh you know frequency that could do that you know they went on to use that frequency with like

[1:23:34 - 1:23:40] ▶

submarine experiments so that he believed was like the frequency that could carry you know audio information to

[1:23:40 - 1:23:49] ▶

somebody's head uh and he was very concerned that the soviets had similar capabilities yeah i mean there's you know project

[1:23:49 - 1:23:59] ▶

pandora which started in i think the the 60s which you know going back to intellectron that was right around the time this

[1:23:59 - 1:24:07] ▶

was happening which was you know yeah the same thing the russians had these sort of radio frequency weapons which which you know they did i mean that's all

[1:24:07 - 1:24:15] ▶

back to this mk ultra the you know lsd you know giving lsd to unwitting people like at a certain point

[1:24:54 - 1:25:01] ▶

know how someone in you know the real world will react and i think geller you know was was part of

[1:25:07 - 1:25:13] ▶

instance where geller allegedly uh teleported so he was walking down the street in new york city

[1:25:19 - 1:25:28] ▶

1973 i think he claims he's walking down the street in new york city gets a weird feeling right all of a

[1:25:28 - 1:25:37] ▶

and and he crashes through the the screen porch there's footage super eight movie footage of of

[1:25:45 - 1:25:52] ▶

buhar filming the screen porch after this allegedly happened it's all smashed through right and geller of

[1:25:52 - 1:25:58] ▶

geller oh yeah this happened and the nine did this basically you since you were questioning their

[1:26:08 - 1:26:15] ▶

question us again and they did this teleportation right and the weird thing is again like the length

[1:26:19 - 1:26:27] ▶

get a load of film you know put it in the put it in the camera film get the get the film transferred

[1:26:35 - 1:26:43] ▶

and and be like hey look i actually filmed when you right after you flew into the window and here it is

[1:26:43 - 1:26:49] ▶

himself i was involved in a program and my boss was the guy who did all research with hypnosis and mind

[1:27:50 - 1:27:59] ▶

manipulation so you know he he was doing it and i think a lot of the geller stuff was just like okay

[1:27:59 - 1:28:07] ▶

somebody close to buharic in the 60s specifically really yeah his assistant the same one i told you

[1:28:29 - 1:28:36] ▶

about who made the jfk comment said yeah he he talked to him you know all the time why so that was

[1:28:36 - 1:28:42] ▶

something to the effect of yeah he showed him um some photographs of um of yeah something from roswell

[1:28:48 - 1:28:55] ▶

telepathic connection with the material verna von braun takes me into his personal office there is a safe in

[1:29:00 - 1:29:06] ▶

the office he opens the safe i see a piece of metal i've never seen such a color pulls it out it's not

[1:29:06 - 1:29:12] ▶

here and he goes how did you know so you know something it's so interesting the other thing too

[1:29:31 - 1:29:35] ▶

and this goes back to the the controllers um book a lot of the stories and again keep in mind this is

[1:29:35 - 1:29:43] ▶

all pre coming to the u.s going to sri everyone knows that stuff this is in in tel aviv before any of

[1:29:43 - 1:29:51] ▶

that and he another story like this teleportation one they're in um the sinai desert they're driving

[1:29:51 - 1:30:00] ▶

ufo lands geller goes into like a trance boards the the ufo comes back with like a pen and said or

[1:30:23 - 1:30:32] ▶

this will forever be proof that i i uh you know went on this craft but the same thing it's always like

[1:30:37 - 1:30:44] ▶

i'm just kind of putting the pieces together but it just seems to me that it's like let's take this ufo

[1:31:24 - 1:31:30] ▶

it does again the mk ultra thing just explain everything which is like such a dark version of the

[1:31:46 - 1:31:52] ▶

that the you know extraterrestrials or nhi non-human intelligence already has mastery over vis-a-vis its

[1:32:00 - 1:32:07] ▶

ability to like manipulate human beings like i think of one of the most credible cases for me is a guy

[1:32:07 - 1:32:13] ▶

sort of like b2 bomber was like kind of winking at him in the distance he and his um uh you know um

[1:32:29 - 1:32:36] ▶

get there and it's this like huge like plasma orb that's glowing it's red hot and it uh it's the size

[1:32:42 - 1:32:50] ▶

of a walmart is the the line he always says it's sort of this crazy iconic line you know and um and uh

[1:32:50 - 1:32:57] ▶

he ends up nine being transported nine miles um away from the base uh like behind a dam and it's

[1:32:57 - 1:33:05] ▶

like then it's the next morning he has no idea what happened and all he i think had remembered was

[1:33:05 - 1:33:11] ▶

he gets sort of you know debriefed they check his teeth i think he said that like the guy checking

[1:33:24 - 1:33:31] ▶

it's really sort of crazy um yeah that is the tooth thing is really strange and there's a lot online

[1:33:36 - 1:33:45] ▶

find another subject to bring through the nine he claims so this is even pre phyllis schlemer is right

[1:34:29 - 1:34:38] ▶

around because phyllis schlemer was sort of the next channel that he he discovers that that brings

[1:34:38 - 1:34:43] ▶

through the nine but before phyllis there was this guy in florida where phyllis was from she knew this guy

[1:34:43 - 1:34:49] ▶

sure enough he puts him he he hypnotizes him and he is communicating with not the nine but it was some other

[1:35:08 - 1:35:17] ▶

being i can't remember the name but anyways this guy says you know i got really really weird vibes

[1:35:17 - 1:35:25] ▶

had and he goes to the dentist and says you know what what's going on here i i didn't get this done and

[1:35:33 - 1:35:44] ▶

and oh complete side note the guy that buharic uh ran into electron with was a dentist what that he

[1:35:50 - 1:35:58] ▶

met in the army so this guy discovers a a um a filling he never had he completely freaks out and and

[1:35:58 - 1:36:07] ▶

leaves the the group that is buharic phyllis and and it's sad and again this always comes back to

[1:36:08 - 1:36:15] ▶

this like not avoiding the the negative stuff like apparently the guy went like you know crazy he just

[1:36:15 - 1:36:21] ▶

had like a mental breakdown there's a couple other people in the the sphere of this story that this

[1:36:21 - 1:36:26] ▶

happened to but that's like a real story and the guide you know and he brought it up to buharic and

[1:36:26 - 1:36:33] ▶

this or i think you know actually i think what they said was oh you know this was done by the the

[1:36:36 - 1:36:43] ▶

bizarre you know um but that goes back to the i mean what you just told me is crazy because this was

[1:36:49 - 1:36:56] ▶

the film does a good job of this or i hope it does is you know i don't believe or and especially don't

[1:37:02 - 1:37:10] ▶

encounters for instance um in the late 80s uh buharic lived in north carolina and he uh there's a story

[1:37:23 - 1:37:31] ▶

itself over the house and so we have the video buharic's son andy who's an awesome guy he he did this kind of

[1:37:52 - 1:38:00] ▶

like funny video where he interviewed like all the people who were there at this family gathering and

[1:38:00 - 1:38:06] ▶

oh yes or no but that night um multiple people saw this huge ufo and andy tells the story and he

[1:38:10 - 1:38:18] ▶

andre buharic but like he's he's very normal saying guy he said yeah of course you know the camera

[1:38:26 - 1:38:32] ▶

wasn't out because it was much later in the night and again pre-iphone of course you know you got to

[1:38:32 - 1:38:38] ▶

three of the cousins all saw this huge thing is silently hovered over so while and that and and

[1:38:45 - 1:38:51] ▶

his son again very emotionally says like that was the moment i said okay like i i believe in in this

[1:38:51 - 1:38:57] ▶

that happened you know well i think there's something it's like everybody sees the world through

[1:39:35 - 1:39:41] ▶

or manipulate what people experience yeah but the idea that there's nothing outside of that perceptual

[1:39:55 - 1:40:01] ▶

yeah this is i mean this is one of the craziest interviews i've ever done man this is crazy i mean

[1:40:13 - 1:40:19] ▶

about puharj's son and this ufo showing up um what was night because i think of 1952 as the you know dc fly

[1:40:24 - 1:40:32] ▶

over washington invasion like maybe the most intense uh ufo showing in united states history as far as mass media

[1:40:32 - 1:40:42] ▶

pretty amazing and he remembers it and stuff he's one of the probably last living witnesses wow um amazing

[1:40:50 - 1:40:55] ▶

yeah but do you think that had anything to do with the seance because i think of the seance with you

[1:40:55 - 1:41:00] ▶

know the original channeling of the nine it was 52. do you know what month uh it was it was um

[1:41:00 - 1:41:07] ▶

new year's eve okay well i mean it was before then because the so the the again i don't want to engage

[1:41:07 - 1:41:17] ▶

in any sort of you know selection bias here but july 1952 was when it was the thing showed up and so

[1:41:17 - 1:41:24] ▶

but a lot of that early channeling with the nod that was all you know 52 interesting yeah into 53 i mean

[1:41:24 - 1:41:32] ▶

it could have been and i told you like he he wrote in his journals about these orbs and the one of the

[1:41:32 - 1:41:37] ▶

every every time i want to get away from like the occult having to do with ufos it's like it's just so

[1:41:42 - 1:41:47] ▶

obviously it does have everything to do and there's there's even a group called the borderland society

[1:41:47 - 1:41:53] ▶

which was borderland well which one the borderlands research yeah yeah hearts was very involved in

[1:41:53 - 1:41:58] ▶

that in fact a lot of the recordings we have not a lot but some of them came from from them they

[1:41:58 - 1:42:04] ▶

geldreich and he uh has uncovered like a couple of ufo either crashes or appearances where the borderland

[1:42:15 - 1:42:22] ▶

society knew about these ufo appearances before the military did before the army before the air force

[1:42:22 - 1:42:30] ▶

were there and you know maybe there's some occult stuff going on there yeah with the knights of malta

[1:42:45 - 1:42:50] ▶

of the german space program he was also close with walt disney and i think they're they made a little

[1:43:25 - 1:43:31] ▶

life that he sort of created and then uh my buddy danny jones just did an interview with one of the

[1:43:35 - 1:43:42] ▶

last living apollo astronauts charlie duke and the number one moon landing hoaxer person bart cybral

[1:43:42 - 1:43:47] ▶

and danny on the phone with me is like dude i'm not sure that the early astronauts weren't mk ultra

[1:43:47 - 1:43:53] ▶

and it's weird you know and it's like you have you know a picture of jolly west on the set of 2001

[1:43:54 - 1:44:01] ▶

that's insane it is insane it is insane and and then you have these you know it's like the neil

[1:44:10 - 1:44:16] ▶

after he comes back from the moon and so you have to wonder if there's some sort of like weird

[1:44:24 - 1:44:29] ▶

my you know and if i didn't know puharj and you weren't of on braun you have one of the mk ultra

[1:44:30 - 1:44:36] ▶

architects yeah in touch with the head of the american space bar it's weird well the other

[1:44:36 - 1:44:41] ▶

thing too with the the nasa connection with puharj is again in the 60s um he was doing like a ton of

[1:44:41 - 1:44:48] ▶

claims this i've never heard it we don't have the tape but he claims that they before they went to

[1:45:02 - 1:45:08] ▶

the moon right they didn't know the surface of the moon what it would would be like really so they

[1:45:08 - 1:45:14] ▶

uh is it uh spike whatever so he he claims that they sent remote viewers to the moon to get a picture

[1:45:21 - 1:45:30] ▶

know if if they went to to to send stuff there and he says yeah you know somewhere in the nasa

[1:45:36 - 1:45:44] ▶

archives i'm sure there's the tapes we did where we recorded this psychic kind of remote viewing the

[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶

moon and and he and he had the contracts of nasa like we don't we have one that doesn't say that but

[1:45:49 - 1:45:56] ▶

yeah i've heard a lot about that that they're in the late 60s there's some somewhere in florida

[1:46:17 - 1:46:22] ▶

talk about oh dude gordon cooper was very involved with buharic so yeah so this is one of the this is

[1:46:26 - 1:46:33] ▶

the guy who spent longer in the earth's orbit you know in space than anyone prior to him he went in the

[1:46:33 - 1:46:41] ▶

seeing experiments with the faraday cage seeing the space kids um yeah why was he so interested i

[1:46:48 - 1:46:55] ▶

flying the same kind of formation we fly in our fighters were they planes i mean what well it turns

[1:47:20 - 1:47:26] ▶

there i mean the whole gene roddenberry thing is crazy yeah so the creator of star trek yeah so so

[1:47:46 - 1:47:52] ▶

sure enough is the tape that no one's ever heard of this session that is kind of like crazy to to to be in

[1:47:58 - 1:48:06] ▶

back then these prominent people at the time we're now in mid-70s would come there spend time there and

[1:48:15 - 1:48:22] ▶

recording that like you know he says like like i've said many times in the past which would indicate that

[1:48:28 - 1:48:34] ▶

this wasn't the first time he was a part of like a channeling session with them but yeah we have the

[1:48:34 - 1:48:40] ▶

tape where it was um roddenberry puharic and phyllis schlemer was the channel the channeler and you

[1:48:40 - 1:48:47] ▶

channeling the nine and roddenberry is there and it's like an hour or two hours of him asking questions

[1:48:54 - 1:49:00] ▶

about and that becomes everything the plot of star trek or well i wouldn't say the plot as star trek

[1:49:00 - 1:49:06] ▶

called vanod just like the early nine channeler so there's no question like that that's connected

[1:49:21 - 1:49:28] ▶

story but gene roddenberry wrote a script called the nine and it's all about his he changed the names

[1:49:35 - 1:49:42] ▶

and locations and the whole premise is his experience of working with puharic and phyllis channeling the

[1:49:42 - 1:49:49] ▶

roddenberry at the time was going through a lot with like i guess he was like drinking a lot and i don't

[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶

know all the specifics but it just like it you know as as stuff in the in the movie industry does it fell

[1:50:04 - 1:50:10] ▶

page script about about his experience and it's called the nine so trippy yeah and you have so we

[1:50:19 - 1:50:27] ▶

you also you know think about the star trek you did with the you know the galactic federation yeah

[1:50:35 - 1:50:41] ▶

would you know has won multiple the highest you know national security awards in israel is basically

[1:50:49 - 1:50:55] ▶

the uh founder of their space program and their their equivalent of space force and was i think head

[1:50:55 - 1:51:01] ▶

of it for decades yeah and he just writes this autobiography where he talks about uh the galactic

[1:51:01 - 1:51:07] ▶

that like the heads of various nation-state space programs are aware of here uh perhaps yeah does he

[1:51:14 - 1:51:22] ▶

mention anything about the nine too or who ashed no i thought maybe okay not specifically okay but um

[1:51:22 - 1:51:30] ▶

the other weird connection to um israel puhart and everything was uh he was close with uh itzak bentoff

[1:51:30 - 1:51:37] ▶

of like the israeli puhart he he kind of looks like him and you know they have the same vibe going on but

[1:51:43 - 1:51:49] ▶

they were they were good friends uh i don't know the specifics of how they met apparently uh bentoff was

[1:51:49 - 1:51:58] ▶

you know instrumental in hooking up uh puhart with geller i don't know the truth to that but um

[1:51:58 - 1:52:04] ▶

not weird necessarily but also you know why would you do that and then save the cassette tapes decades

[1:52:38 - 1:52:44] ▶

the the fire department and bentoff uh around that time was also being monitored puhart was

[1:53:12 - 1:53:21] ▶

friends with a lot of the stanford research institute and early psychic you know research pioneers yeah

[1:53:53 - 1:53:59] ▶

and claimed to have this kind of theory of everything he writes a book called stalking the wild pendulum

[1:53:59 - 1:54:05] ▶

and going to kind of pick off information or hey we're we're buddies we're into the same stuff we should

[1:54:35 - 1:54:42] ▶

document or anything that really nailed and i think that's what's interesting about the the

[1:55:10 - 1:55:14] ▶

film and the story in general is like you still question there's still research to be done into this

[1:55:14 - 1:55:21] ▶

because we don't have the definitive answer of what's going on we just have all this

[1:55:21 - 1:55:26] ▶

all these strange breadcrumbs over several decades that would point to well i think the most interesting

[1:55:27 - 1:55:33] ▶

cutting to you know the deeper architectures of reality yeah and uh i often think you should be

[1:55:40 - 1:55:46] ▶

makes it so fascinating right it makes you just want to go go deeper and uh yeah um i think that the

[1:55:58 - 1:56:04] ▶

sign too of the whole geller thing being like i mentioned earlier like him being involved maybe

[1:56:04 - 1:56:11] ▶

very open about you know i was i was scared um and he always uses the term like buharj made me believe

[1:56:26 - 1:56:33] ▶

this he made you know and then he and he does credit bar says look you know i i i love the guy he

[1:56:33 - 1:56:39] ▶

helped me he helped me get to the to america um so it's not like he's he hates him or he speak but he

[1:56:39 - 1:56:46] ▶

mentions being pretty sure that uh buharic had slipped him the mushrooms so you know

[1:56:52 - 1:57:00] ▶

years later i think he wanted to come clean or sure about about like what he really experiences the

[1:57:09 - 1:57:15] ▶

yeah whatever you know i know what's going to happen and he'll like predict the wild things happening and

[1:57:30 - 1:57:35] ▶

um well he was doing that in the 70s he was like like again these this this idea that you could use

[1:57:36 - 1:57:44] ▶

and then he talks a lot about doing that back then um i have a friend who worked at the princeton

[1:57:53 - 1:57:59] ▶

parapsychology lab and whenever i try to throw the kitchen sink of skepticism around like he's just a

[1:57:59 - 1:58:05] ▶

know yeah i that's really actually my again with everything i said prior to him potentially being the

[1:58:23 - 1:58:29] ▶

know but i would assume like you can't do it a hundred percent of the time maybe you can do it

[1:58:47 - 1:58:52] ▶

sixty percent of the time yeah but i think that about him because i've heard enough stories

[1:58:52 - 1:58:56] ▶

i think he liked the idea of the showmanship and but yeah he definitely had something going on

[1:59:02 - 1:59:08] ▶

speaking of people with gifted you know psychic abilities uh who are the space kids the space kids

[1:59:08 - 1:59:16] ▶

uh apparently the story goes that these kids all over the world um specifically in the united states

[1:59:36 - 1:59:45] ▶

and the uk and in and in china which are just the the stories that we were able to kind of look into

[1:59:45 - 1:59:52] ▶

or they would you know go into the room and the the the drawers but oh you know poltergeist stuff right

[2:00:07 - 2:00:14] ▶

whatever but you know it's like parents calling in uh the tv station you know pooharach claims like

[2:00:22 - 2:00:29] ▶

saying what the hell is going on here you know my kid just did this my kid just bent a spoon my kid just

[2:00:29 - 2:00:34] ▶

you know touched the the the refrigerator and it short-circuited you know all sorts of stuff

[2:00:35 - 2:00:40] ▶

their psychic abilities just kind of like came out in that moment it's like a contagion of yeah the

[2:00:48 - 2:00:53] ▶

in you know all over the the country in canada and places and and people and and we say kids we're

[2:01:39 - 2:01:45] ▶

six year old kids but the ones that we're dealing with in the film are all you know in their early 20s

[2:01:51 - 2:01:58] ▶

say hey you know we gotta talk like i have i have these abilities and and you are obviously the guy

[2:02:06 - 2:02:13] ▶

psychic uh research uh research on these kids and i think again not unlike the earlier

[2:02:54 - 2:03:03] ▶

vanod roundtable stuff like a lot of conspiracy stuff pops up at this moment too because of the general

[2:03:03 - 2:03:11] ▶

nature of kids showing up at the house of a you know known intelligence uh connected scientists etc and

[2:03:11 - 2:03:21] ▶

of went through the different abilities tested them and and that all led to getting back to the nine

[2:03:29 - 2:03:37] ▶

and so buhar said okay kind of like grouped them okay all the all the kids who've had an experience here

[2:03:45 - 2:03:50] ▶

you know not and so all the kids that had an experience he would hypnotize them and allegedly the nine would

[2:03:50 - 2:03:56] ▶

come through even through these kids who most of which never knew about about the nine and and most of which were

[2:03:56 - 2:04:05] ▶

do you think that the nine coming through these different experiencers abductees people who've seen

[2:04:30 - 2:04:38] ▶

around the time the sri remote viewing stuff starts yeah and keep in mind how put off tells us that he went

[2:05:14 - 2:05:23] ▶

to puharic's house in ossining heard all about the nine and that puharic was apparently communicating

[2:05:23 - 2:05:30] ▶

with this thing called the nine wild and then didn't really say much has hal put off never talked about

[2:05:30 - 2:05:35] ▶

this no i mean in the film he does i gotta ask him but um he basically just tells a story about

[2:05:35 - 2:05:41] ▶

well quite frankly he was quite closed off when it came to the the subject of all this puharic

[2:05:43 - 2:05:49] ▶

um so i don't know i wasn't there at the interview someone else did it i mean he it was great he did

[2:05:49 - 2:05:55] ▶

targ at ossining sitting on the front steps so my theory is that and people have talked about this

[2:06:06 - 2:06:13] ▶

part of the sri program a lot of people put off himself say no he wasn't he just simply brought

[2:06:19 - 2:06:26] ▶

was connected because i think the story most people read is just like he brought geller dropped him off

[2:06:50 - 2:06:55] ▶

a lot of the tapes are remote viewing there's no other way to look at it it's okay what's going on in this location

[2:07:27 - 2:07:35] ▶

it's either like a pendulum or whatever it is a countdown and i think the nine and and something

[2:07:59 - 2:08:09] ▶

somehow like this we're going to connect with the nine thing was like a way that these it was an in

[2:08:09 - 2:08:18] ▶

the if that makes sense for some of these kids to to sort of want to participate because again

[2:08:18 - 2:08:25] ▶

20 year old and say hey you know especially at the time with erie geller being famous you know

[2:08:45 - 2:08:50] ▶

approach it that way so that's my theory is that that was sort of his way and one of the space kids

[2:09:20 - 2:09:27] ▶

the effect a long time ago of like the nine was basically just like this sandbox for us to

[2:09:33 - 2:09:38] ▶

or some analogy like that where the nine is basically just like

[2:09:39 - 2:09:42] ▶

like this sandbox for us to to play in or something and again it was off it wasn't in the interview

[2:09:42 - 2:09:49] ▶

time again you've got same years remote viewing experiments are starting at sri you've got the

[2:09:54 - 2:10:01] ▶

kids who on the tapes are doing remote viewing so but the qu the question i want to push you on this

[2:10:07 - 2:10:16] ▶

is like remote viewing is used for the us from 72 to 95 and probably now yeah to like actually add to

[2:10:16 - 2:10:24] ▶

communicating through these space kids or do you think the nine was being implanted and they were testing

[2:10:38 - 2:10:46] ▶

their ability to sort of manipulate thoughts and that was through the nine or whatever and they had some

[2:10:46 - 2:10:52] ▶

some you know i mean clearly they did have some abilities to do that the the the evidence would point to the

[2:10:52 - 2:10:59] ▶

ladder i mean that's that's the best way i can answer that god that's crazy that's uh and that

[2:10:59 - 2:11:06] ▶

would go back it's very deflating i'm sure for a lot of the ufo well it is and again like i don't want

[2:11:06 - 2:11:12] ▶

trying to be serious and piece together the life of this guy that spans decades like and and that's what

[2:11:19 - 2:11:25] ▶

of the protocol to get people into this state involves uh saying hey you're you're contacting

[2:11:33 - 2:11:39] ▶

the nine and whatever it's some protocol and it sounds like a hypnotic technique yeah but then some

[2:11:39 - 2:11:44] ▶

seem super open-ended and they just seem to connect with the nine how do you sort of make sense of that

[2:11:44 - 2:11:49] ▶

well i don't know and that goes back to the kind of you know i think uh jeffrey mishlove brings this

[2:11:49 - 2:11:58] ▶

up of this sort of uh trickster element the kind of paranormal phenomena where like sometimes they're

[2:11:58 - 2:12:06] ▶

of the et phenomena or was it just all mk ultra you know and again i don't think it was all mk ultra

[2:12:27 - 2:12:35] ▶

again in some of these um sessions and and this is strange is is that on some of the sessions you

[2:12:41 - 2:12:50] ▶

and she's you know this is like the tape recording we're hearing and and on those sessions it's like

[2:12:56 - 2:13:02] ▶

you know typical okay the nine um the you know the world is beautiful we need to save humanity etc etc

[2:13:02 - 2:13:09] ▶

then there's other tapes that are like you know what time is the best to to remote view the kremlin

[2:13:09 - 2:13:17] ▶

around it kind of gets to the the serious stuff is again what it this is what i'm you're hearing what

[2:13:39 - 2:13:47] ▶

again i think buharic like and and this is a big part of the film and a big part of my philosophy

[2:13:59 - 2:14:07] ▶

but i think he got sort of under the thumb of the uh you know intelligence world early on and i just don't

[2:14:16 - 2:14:26] ▶

think that he could kind of get away from that and i think you know you often hear it's like the mafia

[2:14:26 - 2:14:33] ▶

negative stuff that he may have otherwise not wanted to do and i think that's like a big part of the film

[2:14:48 - 2:14:54] ▶

him out there i mean there's tons of it have you read the stargate chron conspiracy the book it's

[2:15:01 - 2:15:07] ▶

really good it's um it came out in the 90s and it was the first book that really talked about a lot

[2:15:07 - 2:15:14] ▶

like this this book had the story that i told you about of the guy in florida who woke up with the

[2:15:14 - 2:15:19] ▶

the too thin plant and then this is the first book that really exposed basically saying everything he

[2:15:19 - 2:15:25] ▶

you know it's not true and i think that i hope to get that across in the film and i think we do because

[2:15:32 - 2:15:38] ▶

do it you know yeah and whatever this kind of amorphous blob that is the ufo legacy program that

[2:15:46 - 2:15:53] ▶

i think that's probably the case with a lot of these people is that they were kind of sucked up into

[2:15:59 - 2:16:03] ▶

things that you know some you know behind the the the iron curtain science you know uh group in the

[2:16:09 - 2:16:17] ▶

weren't particularly happy about and didn't feel idealistic about and i'm sure that that's the case

[2:16:29 - 2:16:35] ▶

with them yeah and and they were great when i showed them the sort of final product which really

[2:16:49 - 2:16:55] ▶

heard before yeah so that just goes to show his own family was in the dark about a lot of it but you

[2:17:12 - 2:17:19] ▶

know the nine again like i just keep thinking i think about it a lot and i again like the the answer just

[2:17:19 - 2:17:27] ▶

he's the most jovial funny night you know like he's not this like monster person and that's why i quite

[2:18:09 - 2:18:17] ▶

want to do any and not to ruin the end of the film but he basically like admits that that he basically

[2:18:30 - 2:18:35] ▶

do what i did essentially is what he he his message is if you look at the zimbardo prison experiments at

[2:18:42 - 2:18:49] ▶

milgram's shock experiments you know it's uh and then you combine that with the you know the the power

[2:18:55 - 2:19:02] ▶

of the cia at the time i'm sure you could get coerced into doing all sorts of things and does that fully

[2:19:02 - 2:19:08] ▶

exonerate you like probably not but uh it's uh yeah i mean i think the the the best version which i think

[2:19:08 - 2:19:16] ▶

your documentary really gives is the nuanced one which shows how somebody could get incrementally

[2:19:16 - 2:19:22] ▶

walked into a position like that and there's just no question the level of um you know how how deeply

[2:19:22 - 2:19:30] ▶

lot of speculation but at the end of the day like those people don't haven't seen the materials

[2:19:39 - 2:19:46] ▶

any other experiments that they were doing with the space kids specifically well here's what's

[2:19:59 - 2:20:04] ▶

interesting is that um and you see in the film like getting back to this idea of the nine being this

[2:20:04 - 2:20:11] ▶

kind of end point just to like get things get things done uh in the 70s we're talking 74 through 76

[2:20:11 - 2:20:21] ▶

working with her then but and and and all the space kids you know they weren't specifically going on

[2:20:31 - 2:20:38] ▶

these trips but they would literally have a session right with the nine and they would do group sessions

[2:20:38 - 2:20:46] ▶

him and six other people and that would apparently like bring the message through more strongly and

[2:20:51 - 2:20:58] ▶

and so forth but um in that time they're getting messages from the nine saying you know you need to go to

[2:20:58 - 2:21:06] ▶

that period in fact one of the guys working with buharic at that time john whitmore he was a british guy

[2:21:23 - 2:21:29] ▶

these countries at this time yet puharic with his psychic where we're going constantly because the

[2:21:35 - 2:21:43] ▶

really the nine or once again was puharic involved in something else that he had to be in these areas

[2:21:50 - 2:21:58] ▶

at this time you know under the auspices that this was a psychic you know this was the nine

[2:21:58 - 2:22:03] ▶

life really she did an interview she said he used the the td 100 machine on me all the time i never knew

[2:22:10 - 2:22:16] ▶

high-ranking government people and it's all just oh hey the nine told us to come here so we're here

[2:22:32 - 2:22:38] ▶

like the more you listen to those tapes at that time and the more you just kind of put things together

[2:22:58 - 2:23:05] ▶

like it does seem like what if that was that was the cover and oh this guy is so crazy he actually

[2:23:05 - 2:23:12] ▶

doing whatever he needs to do there yeah it's using the stigma of the science kind of in your favor as

[2:23:18 - 2:23:25] ▶

these tapes gives this goes back to like the remote viewing stuff of like some of the questions that

[2:23:31 - 2:23:38] ▶

they're asking are like you know what are what is the code name that you know the the the you know

[2:23:38 - 2:23:46] ▶

so then that begs the question why would an alien why would an alien be like asking those types of

[2:23:52 - 2:23:59] ▶

questions if that's what you're supposed to be doing talking to the nine but to go back to the the the

[2:23:59 - 2:24:05] ▶

the the constant contrast is like he really was a genuine believer because he would often go um to

[2:24:05 - 2:24:14] ▶

the great pyramid in the in the same time and do like all sorts of experiments there really and he

[2:24:14 - 2:24:22] ▶

just loved going there like he was obsessed with the pyramid he's obsessed with the history all the

[2:24:22 - 2:24:27] ▶

the egyptian god like so you know that's not and there are nine there are specifically nine egyptian

[2:24:27 - 2:24:32] ▶

meditating in the king's chamber what in 76 and he did experiments with um uh one of the space kids

[2:24:37 - 2:24:46] ▶

in the pyramid and they brought through this information apparently they're channeling this

[2:24:46 - 2:24:50] ▶

like it's almost like okay i gotta i i have to you know do my job for the cia and on my off time i i can

[2:24:56 - 2:25:06] ▶

go in the pyramid and and do do some cool stuff i'm interested in that's just kind of what it seems because

[2:25:06 - 2:25:12] ▶

like again there's no mind manipulation dark stuff going on there it's it's it's very clearly him like i'm going to meditate in the king's chamber

[2:25:12 - 2:25:22] ▶

like well what does that have to do with you know mk ultra so i just think like and again this goes to like his death in the mystery book

[2:25:22 - 2:25:31] ▶

right because the nine are saying you have to go here you have to go to this location to meditate this

[2:25:59 - 2:26:04] ▶

and that but i think he's going okay well i'm already in egypt and there's the great pyramid and i've

[2:26:04 - 2:26:09] ▶

that going on and um his death is completely mysterious what what happened you can see the

[2:26:20 - 2:26:27] ▶

stairway right for this window where my father allegedly fell down and they found him right at the

[2:26:27 - 2:26:33] ▶

bottom of the stairs we don't really know um what killed him

[2:26:33 - 2:26:41] ▶

well so there's a couple of things he he was sick at the time um but not i believe not enough that

[2:26:44 - 2:26:52] ▶

where he said you know look i'll admit it um i worked for this part of the cia my boss was the guy

[2:27:15 - 2:27:21] ▶

who was directly involved with all the hypnosis mind manipulation who was his boss uh he doesn't

[2:27:22 - 2:27:27] ▶

i was a consultant at the time and so he opens up about a lot of that stuff he he literally says uh

[2:27:48 - 2:27:55] ▶

i can produce in your mind the image of of um an alien experience um his assistant what at the time

[2:27:56 - 2:28:07] ▶

mm-hmm when puhart was in the hospital there's a part of the tape where dick russell goes outside i

[2:28:13 - 2:28:19] ▶

using flashing lights using all tone all of that stuff was able to create the the the ufo experience

[2:28:37 - 2:28:46] ▶

implanting the the the idea that you've had an encounter or you know you've been abducted or so

[2:29:08 - 2:29:15] ▶

like he was involved basically making the point he was involved in that kind of stuff that kind of

[2:29:15 - 2:29:21] ▶

the ufo thing but um but all that was going on like right before he died you know that tape was recorded

[2:29:31 - 2:29:38] ▶

less than a year before he died but um he he was found uh at the bottom of the stairs he fell

[2:29:38 - 2:29:45] ▶

and he he passed away and at the time he had all these um he was still and again this goes back to

[2:29:46 - 2:29:55] ▶

but but conveniently that day they no one else was there at the house uh when they were usually always

[2:30:08 - 2:30:17] ▶

at the house and puharic has this like weird legal pad that he wrote like very soon before this this

[2:30:17 - 2:30:28] ▶

incident occurred where he he fell on the stairs where he's basically like outlining why he thinks he's

[2:30:28 - 2:30:35] ▶

basically harm him and take him out he claimed again this is either like the work of someone

[2:30:43 - 2:30:49] ▶

completely paranoid or somebody who's just totally telling the truth well it's right before he fell down

[2:30:49 - 2:30:55] ▶

the stairs mysteriously he claimed that they this this and again it makes sense because these psychic

[2:30:55 - 2:31:01] ▶

so when he would turn on the tv he would get hit by this you know elf that would be and he and he

[2:31:25 - 2:31:31] ▶

the day he's found you know there's no one at the house and um right not right before that but a few

[2:32:09 - 2:32:17] ▶

years before before um his death he had been uh approached by the cia to head up a elf research

[2:32:17 - 2:32:27] ▶

know weapons and so forth again a lot of that was going on in the late 70s

[2:32:42 - 2:32:46] ▶

because they came to his house he's kind of recounting this in his notes and um the guy that he said came

[2:32:53 - 2:33:00] ▶

on behalf of the cia to talk to him as a guy we know was involved in cia who's that this guy named bob

[2:33:01 - 2:33:06] ▶

beck who's in the who's in the film um and he was another puharach type where where he got roped into a lot

[2:33:06 - 2:33:15] ▶

that and said you know no you know get the hell out of here etc so all of that stuff was leading up to

[2:33:21 - 2:33:29] ▶

95 and he was found dead coincidentally you know the stargate program ends in 95. i was gonna i literally

[2:33:29 - 2:33:36] ▶

um in 95 uh less than a month after puharach dies he this guy disappears grinberg when if you see the

[2:33:50 - 2:33:59] ▶

film um the story basically is he was involved in very similar research basically was able to prove

[2:33:59 - 2:34:06] ▶

you say there's something so bizarre yeah grinberg the the whole thing about him is like he realized

[2:34:41 - 2:34:47] ▶

we live in a matrix and then he left the matrix or something like but what's interesting about him

[2:34:47 - 2:34:52] ▶

he was he was taken in by the government and he's still alive and someone i know and the weirdest thing

[2:35:17 - 2:35:24] ▶

hours and days trying to find this mess but i could not find it for the life of me i tried everything i

[2:35:31 - 2:35:37] ▶

got erased or something i get and but that was the that's like the real theory of grinberg like again

[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶

the doc is really good but there's like actually you know legitimate proof that like he he was

[2:35:48 - 2:35:57] ▶

sort of taken by by the government so that's what your friend who made the movie thinks

[2:35:57 - 2:36:02] ▶

that he was actually taken and well that's one of the theories that basically everyone involved in

[2:36:02 - 2:36:08] ▶

the story like agrees with because everything just points to like that so that happening so so all that

[2:36:08 - 2:36:13] ▶

95 government puts out newspaper articles all over the news you know stargate there's nothing to it

[2:36:23 - 2:36:30] ▶

honest being open about all the experiments he did with you know stargate so i think um annie jacobson

[2:36:40 - 2:36:48] ▶

them seeing him as a liability late in life you know maybe he feels remorse about some of the things

[2:37:04 - 2:37:09] ▶

the research in the in the black um what are some of the wilder testimonies of the space kids that you

[2:37:14 - 2:37:21] ▶

spoke to so basically but the space kids like yeah there there were a lot um and again the reason the

[2:37:21 - 2:37:27] ▶

know you hear a lot about this with the ufo abduction stuff like these these people like

[2:37:44 - 2:37:48] ▶

weren't looking to be in the spotlight in fact they didn't want to be it took about two years

[2:37:48 - 2:37:55] ▶

for me to basically earn the trust of these space kids who i now consider like good good friends

[2:37:56 - 2:38:03] ▶

there and again on the tapes like he would say a name or he would write their name well actually in

[2:38:42 - 2:38:46] ▶

fact in one of his journals he like wrote all the names of the kids at the time so it's pretty easy

[2:38:46 - 2:38:51] ▶

to like google people but um yeah a lot of the the ones we got were were again after kind of talking to

[2:38:51 - 2:39:00] ▶

kind of cultish i mean if you want to look at it that way in the sense that like

[2:39:24 - 2:39:28] ▶

other than the space because there's just all sorts of sarfati jack sarfati being one of them

[2:39:28 - 2:39:34] ▶

model of time travel and warp drive physics yeah and he he lives in the bay area and he's very

[2:40:00 - 2:40:06] ▶

outspoken loves to call people a schmuck he's written about um in the hippies saved physics uh by

[2:40:06 - 2:40:12] ▶

amazing yeah he went to his house because he also i believe sarfati the way he got involved in this

[2:40:19 - 2:40:27] ▶

and talented education program and he was he gets a call from the future saying you're going to meet

[2:40:33 - 2:40:39] ▶

the others you're going to be work on like building ufos essentially which he believes his work touches on

[2:40:39 - 2:40:45] ▶

in the world like he's he's a real physicist he studied under hans bett uh you know at cornell and

[2:40:51 - 2:40:57] ▶

stuff yeah and um he uh says he gets a call from the future and then and then you know they tell him

[2:40:57 - 2:41:04] ▶

when he's going to meet the others and then he ends up meeting how put off like later or whatever and

[2:41:04 - 2:41:08] ▶

well you know it's a crazy connection i just thought of um in that story the so the sarfati story

[2:41:17 - 2:41:24] ▶

uh quickly is yeah he he got this call from this metallic voice which is what some of the um get what

[2:41:24 - 2:41:33] ▶

some sort of you know alien intelligence but um i don't know if you remember his part of the story

[2:41:39 - 2:41:44] ▶

where his i think it was his dad or his uncle or something was was involved in the army or army

[2:41:44 - 2:41:50] ▶

intelligence and one of the people that he knew through a family member that was connected was this

[2:41:50 - 2:41:57] ▶

buharic in the 50s um at the round table doing everything they were doing there whoa yeah so do

[2:42:05 - 2:42:13] ▶

you about the townsend brown connection this is insane yeah this is the craziest thing to tell

[2:42:38 - 2:42:43] ▶

dc for like meetings who hardwood and this is early 50s again which weird that the same year you're

[2:42:49 - 2:42:58] ▶

channeling the nine you know in your lab you're going to dc to meet with all these people but

[2:42:58 - 2:43:03] ▶

mind because he had something to do with um i think it was the army's psychological warfare department

[2:43:14 - 2:43:20] ▶

and that's the same guy sarfati references but in these journals he mentions um meeting townsend brown

[2:43:20 - 2:43:27] ▶

and spending the day with him and it's very brief unfortunate actually maybe we could do this together

[2:43:29 - 2:43:35] ▶

it's part of the page that's like so worn you can't really like read what it says but it's it's kind

[2:43:36 - 2:43:41] ▶

of a you know a brief uh mention that he he met with with brown and spent the afternoon he says

[2:43:41 - 2:43:48] ▶

something like spent the afternoon with him to disgust a lot or something like this i know some kid

[2:43:48 - 2:43:53] ▶

who like helped i think it's called the vesuvius project and he helped decode this ancient papyri

[2:43:53 - 2:43:59] ▶

the main use cases of mk ultra it would be like keeping secret science sort of on lock maybe creating

[2:44:46 - 2:44:52] ▶

the audience will give me because i talk about him all the time but i think he's like the godfather

[2:45:02 - 2:45:08] ▶

of american kind of you know in the black dark science like whole tech trees that come from

[2:45:08 - 2:45:14] ▶

yeah townsend brown and so i wonder i wonder what that meeting was like the time then was weird

[2:45:19 - 2:45:27] ▶

overall i think what people don't realize about the 50s is like there's a letter between i think it's

[2:45:27 - 2:45:33] ▶

claude shannon who invented information theory was at princeton information theory is the basis of all

[2:45:33 - 2:45:39] ▶

modern computation and william shockley who invented the modern semiconductor yeah you know bell labs essentially

[2:45:39 - 2:45:48] ▶

he's talking about l ron hubbard and so the point is like it's this weird time where the intersection

[2:46:02 - 2:46:09] ▶

between the types of people who'd be engaging in like bizarre seances esp paranormal stuff that wasn't

[2:46:09 - 2:46:16] ▶

outside the overton window like it is today yeah and so yeah anyway how would you speculate on do

[2:46:16 - 2:46:22] ▶

you have you speculated on the connection between townsend brown and puharic nothing more than just

[2:46:22 - 2:46:28] ▶

townsend brown engaging in a ufo crash retrieval and um i think it's in the late 50s and it's like i think

[2:46:43 - 2:46:52] ▶

brown walks in to harvard flashes his credentials and takes the material and like that you hear stories

[2:47:14 - 2:47:20] ▶

and i think she says that there's a telegram between william stevenson who's the inspiration

[2:47:33 - 2:47:38] ▶

you know um coordinating with wild bill donovan the oss he was like as high up as it gets when it

[2:47:44 - 2:47:50] ▶

injured but he's okay and he's on his way back to the us or whatever so i can give you like 50 other

[2:48:15 - 2:48:19] ▶

stories like that like curtis lemay i mean his daughter said i think on the phone with me linda

[2:48:19 - 2:48:24] ▶

brown says curtis lemay chases townsend brown down the stairs because he's so interested in his

[2:48:24 - 2:48:31] ▶

inventions and stuff so this guy was like as deep as it gets when it came to the american intelligence

[2:48:31 - 2:48:37] ▶

and military elite um so it makes sense if puha rich was as well on the kind of the psychic

[2:48:37 - 2:48:43] ▶

understand and there's some spooky science stuff and the anti-gravity connects with the psychic stuff

[2:48:49 - 2:48:55] ▶

you know nuts and bull like they all kind of materials they all kind of connect at the at the top

[2:48:55 - 2:49:00] ▶

think like the journals that mentioned brown and these others like i don't think these were sort of

[2:49:20 - 2:49:26] ▶

meant to be seen you know these were like buried in his in his records in fact like in the film you'll

[2:49:26 - 2:49:32] ▶

literally again in the journal met he's like you know says something like uh you know wait it was in

[2:50:04 - 2:50:10] ▶

the waiting room for an hour and finally got in and we had we talked and so obviously you're up to

[2:50:10 - 2:50:17] ▶

something serious yeah doing that you're meeting with the third director of the cia who yeah it's

[2:50:17 - 2:50:24] ▶

a while i mean if yeah if anybody was kind of running the government behind the government it was dulles so

[2:50:24 - 2:50:28] ▶

yeah d um yeah some of the wilder testimony yeah the space space kids yeah so yeah they so they just

[2:50:28 - 2:50:36] ▶

basically recounted a lot of like um what they experienced a lot of the channeling sessions so

[2:50:36 - 2:50:43] ▶

a wilder story is um uh this one of the space kids his name is jaime he's um from mexico city

[2:50:43 - 2:50:51] ▶

eventually he told me like if you're willing to like tell the real story like i'll talk

[2:51:05 - 2:51:12] ▶

buharic's assistant this woman who's in the film um they were doing an experiment they were meditating

[2:51:27 - 2:51:33] ▶

next thing he knew he came to she was all the way across the room against the wall and he was back up

[2:52:07 - 2:52:13] ▶

against the wall and he doesn't remember what happened and the last thing he remembers is that she

[2:52:13 - 2:52:19] ▶

touched his forehead some sort of burst of blue light she flew across the room and he told me that and

[2:52:19 - 2:52:31] ▶

you know and he said look you know you can talk to the assistant like she'll she'll corroborate this and

[2:52:31 - 2:52:38] ▶

it would be the exact frequency that would like knock them into the hypnotic state they needed to

[2:53:26 - 2:53:32] ▶

you would fall into the thing he says that one of the one of the kids says yeah i i remember that

[2:53:38 - 2:53:46] ▶

so was this instance with jaime and the finger something to do with that what was it not i don't

[2:53:46 - 2:53:52] ▶

of um there were a couple like the classic you know right now there's a ufo that's sort of hovering over

[2:54:01 - 2:54:12] ▶

would be in the like his protocol like he'd be saying that or like they'd be like automatically

[2:54:20 - 2:54:26] ▶

channeling that would be like apparently the nine you know saying that saying this through them yeah

[2:54:26 - 2:54:32] ▶

him beaming the message right now there is a ufo you know above our head or is it like

[2:54:40 - 2:54:46] ▶

contact with an extraterrestrial say you were to suspend disbelief entirely and just take the contents

[2:55:32 - 2:55:39] ▶

of the nine at face value how would you characterize these nine beings in what they want for humanity

[2:55:39 - 2:55:46] ▶

well it's like i said before um they they speak a lot about this idea that we have the ability of

[2:55:46 - 2:56:00] ▶

uh they kind of say like we're kind of behind a lot of the sightings that that are occurring on

[2:56:14 - 2:56:21] ▶

the re the reason i'd love to be cynical about it but like the nuclear stuff has been going on since

[2:56:28 - 2:56:33] ▶

the 40s there's this guy bud clem uh there's this ufo and nukes documentary it's all based on robert

[2:56:33 - 2:56:38] ▶

he's talking about these fireballs in the sky and they did this project twinkle which was deleted from

[2:56:49 - 2:56:54] ▶

the air force archives uh lincoln la paz this meteorite expert uh at university of new mexico is

[2:56:54 - 2:57:01] ▶

anything prosaic and just like the nuclear connection is so ubiquitous and then you're

[2:57:06 - 2:57:11] ▶

telling me the atomic energy commission gave him money they gave him like over a million dollars yeah

[2:57:11 - 2:57:17] ▶

so like if i were them i'd be like try to tap into what the hell is you know controlling yeah dude this

[2:57:17 - 2:57:24] ▶

because um there there was a lot of uh well you know the the classic thing where like with disinfor

[2:57:38 - 2:57:48] ▶

related research going on with some of this mind control stuff peppered in just to throw off the

[2:58:01 - 2:58:08] ▶

course well what connection did you just make when i said the atomic energy commission what i was thinking

[2:58:08 - 2:58:13] ▶

riser he was a um philosophy professor at university of pittsburgh in the 60s and 70s um

[2:58:25 - 2:58:34] ▶

idea like his whole world view is this idea that like everything is wrong everything in the world

[2:58:43 - 2:58:51] ▶

is just run on frequency tone sound he thinks everything's like the universe is all sound uh

[2:58:51 - 2:59:00] ▶

letters but this guy's theory um riser was you know the ability to communicate with you know et ufo is

[2:59:20 - 2:59:31] ▶

and again this goes back for the hundredth time of like buharaj's real interest in this stuff but riser

[2:59:53 - 2:59:59] ▶

yeah this was his theory that the way to communicate with you know non-human intelligence was essentially

[2:59:59 - 3:00:06] ▶

with this again this this theory of tone sound connecting the universe this is how everything

[3:01:23 - 3:01:28] ▶

the ability to to create such and such a tone and what at what speed should it spin within the you know

[3:01:36 - 3:01:44] ▶

about something serious here you know that's so fascinating so so and then the atomic energy

[3:01:52 - 3:01:58] ▶

commission funding it i find same years literally the same years he's exchanging letters with riser

[3:01:58 - 3:02:04] ▶

yeah 63 64. yeah that's when he gets the contract from atomic energy commission i mean it's all there's

[3:02:04 - 3:02:11] ▶

there's it's a paper trail and the 50s ufos showing up around nuclear bases is you this ubiquitous

[3:02:11 - 3:02:17] ▶

vandenberg air force base oh yeah the guy photo instrumentation specialist named bob jacobs

[3:02:30 - 3:02:35] ▶

and then it's converted into this elf frequency and it's transmitting to the you know space kids brain or

[3:03:04 - 3:03:09] ▶

whatever well you know it's weird you say that because on a lot of the tapes there's mention of

[3:03:09 - 3:03:13] ▶

um coupling to the computer data bank is often a term that is thrown around a lot and this idea that

[3:03:13 - 3:03:22] ▶

now i'm back in the in the more cynical camp where it's well they said at one point he said um that you

[3:03:37 - 3:03:43] ▶

know the referring to the channel being the person you know at some point they will become a more reliable

[3:03:43 - 3:03:50] ▶

well what did the space kids think do they think that they were genuinely tapping into nine you know

[3:04:03 - 3:04:10] ▶

non-human entities or extraterrestrials or do they think that they were tapping into like some dude on the

[3:04:10 - 3:04:17] ▶

other end like a lot of them probably know the history that you know at this point well that's

[3:04:17 - 3:04:21] ▶

a great question and i think that's really the best way to approach it because they they were involved

[3:04:21 - 3:04:26] ▶

mm-hmm um one of the space kids who i'm close with like yeah she she was like you know shocked i i i

[3:04:37 - 3:04:46] ▶

ago about things that i didn't know that were like really important to the story like this guy bob beck

[3:04:58 - 3:05:04] ▶

who was who was most certainly cia who was at the at austin at the time of these exact space kids

[3:05:04 - 3:05:11] ▶

experiments this one of the spaces like i never even knew knew that like you're telling me this for the

[3:05:11 - 3:05:15] ▶

that what was happening was genuine and i think they want to remember the time they had there as a

[3:05:28 - 3:05:36] ▶

positive time and they want to they don't want to go down the negative path or they don't maybe want

[3:05:36 - 3:05:43] ▶

to accept that the negative path may maybe you know the reality and i don't i mean i would probably do

[3:05:43 - 3:05:52] ▶

were talking in the nine we're committing with the nine we were it was a good time we were young we were

[3:05:58 - 3:06:04] ▶

free you know etc and a few of them um have become more open like the guy from mexico city i told you

[3:06:04 - 3:06:12] ▶

where i think some of the things that i told them made them say wait a second i didn't know that and all

[3:06:12 - 3:06:18] ▶

one of the trippiest people that interacted with puharic who who he probably had plans for and

[3:06:44 - 3:06:51] ▶

almost seems like the subject of some you know kind of maniacal experiment is valerie ranson yeah who is

[3:06:51 - 3:06:58] ▶

she she well i wish i knew who she was she's like the most elusive person i've ever come across i think

[3:06:58 - 3:07:05] ▶

she's the most elusive person in this whole ufo history where i mean so basically what i do know is

[3:07:05 - 3:07:13] ▶

that she was um she was working in the uh white house during the uh nixon administration and it

[3:07:13 - 3:07:23] ▶

was she was part of a program like that but apparently she became very interested in the ufo

[3:07:41 - 3:07:49] ▶

can't apparently she's still alive but she basically um i believe was extremely deep in the whole ufo thing

[3:08:21 - 3:08:29] ▶

up uh i can't remember his exact role he was like maybe head of the army in this in the 60s some high

[3:08:37 - 3:08:46] ▶

up role in the army but anyways he was very very connected his pictures of him with like every you

[3:08:46 - 3:08:50] ▶

know president during the 60s 70s like there was a tape of him saying like i met valerie ranson in the

[3:08:50 - 3:08:57] ▶

the head of uh army something or other and then he went on to become the president of like west

[3:09:21 - 3:09:28] ▶

companies that were happening in the late 70s like there's this this company called magnetic energies

[3:09:37 - 3:09:44] ▶

a memoir and we found this tape where he was kind of like dictating um the what he was writing and he

[3:10:04 - 3:10:10] ▶

says yeah i met her she was in the white house a lot um she knew a lot of people but yeah she basically

[3:10:10 - 3:10:16] ▶

that she in effect had to pass on to like important scientists she predicted the failure of one of these

[3:10:22 - 3:10:28] ▶

rocket launches in the late 70s that actually did occur which i don't i don't know you have to look

[3:10:28 - 3:10:34] ▶

that's so great what um oh wow so so so basically she was there but but the kicker is like she was also

[3:10:34 - 3:10:42] ▶

who i know who were um including the space kids uh were like yeah she was like she was connected

[3:10:47 - 3:10:56] ▶

around yeah yeah and then and then but and she was somehow like do you know what role she had in the

[3:11:02 - 3:11:07] ▶

occasions at you know inside the white house you can look it up i i can look it up too i i i'm sorry

[3:11:15 - 3:11:22] ▶

i don't remember but it was some program that she like ran in dc and as part of the nixon administration

[3:11:22 - 3:11:28] ▶

with with that that world and she had some nro involvement too yeah jacques filet is the only

[3:11:33 - 3:11:39] ▶

was doing some sort of work for the nro and um experimenting with satellites and messages from

[3:11:46 - 3:11:52] ▶

satellites to people and i'm telling you man yeah i mean i've tried to i mean the other film i'm doing

[3:11:52 - 3:12:02] ▶

like any crazy enigma in this world that someone needs to like get to the bottom of it's it's her

[3:12:14 - 3:12:21] ▶

of like start getting interested in in advanced technology tesla technology elf stuff but all the

[3:13:00 - 3:13:08] ▶

what's going on what do you think do you have it well so for first of all a little context for the

[3:14:40 - 3:14:45] ▶

that stuff i don't really know like what his he's he's deeply involved in like i think the whatever cia

[3:14:52 - 3:14:59] ▶

gary nolan in the like mid 2010s i think that was i think given by kit green and kit green analyzed them

[3:15:09 - 3:15:15] ▶

uh how put off but really seems to be as deep as anybody specifically on kind of the

[3:15:22 - 3:15:27] ▶

the psychological kind of you know um you know neuroscientific dimension of of this whole thing

[3:15:28 - 3:15:34] ▶

yeah the kit green thing again i'm not i did talk to him i'm not trying to throw him under the bus i

[3:15:40 - 3:15:45] ▶

in the same light as like you know she always happened to be there whenever something was going

[3:16:12 - 3:16:16] ▶

but um he speculates that she was sort of um like a spy and and and the type that would maybe sleep

[3:16:22 - 3:16:30] ▶

have in the puharach archives of her at lab nine um and you know yeah she was very good looking so that

[3:17:00 - 3:17:06] ▶

what this guy said who knew her well that was his theory but um the other theory is that she um

[3:17:17 - 3:17:26] ▶

was again with the same idea of being an attractive woman was able to lure in uh individuals to help

[3:17:27 - 3:17:38] ▶

like that but um the really weird thing is i don't know if you've seen it there's there's allegedly an

[3:17:48 - 3:17:54] ▶

and i'm like oh my this is crazy right so in the interview it's really bizarre she tells us really

[3:18:23 - 3:18:28] ▶

weird and the thing is it checks out of what we know from her and most of the information is from the

[3:18:28 - 3:18:33] ▶

illinois in this interview uh she says she moved to houston we know jock met her in houston uh the

[3:18:39 - 3:18:45] ▶

says in the video checks out to what we definitely know nope not her not one person and even this do

[3:19:02 - 3:19:10] ▶

back she's so she's the biggest enigma in this whole world every single one of them nope oh man what

[3:19:15 - 3:19:21] ▶

you know anyone who thinks that's her is an idiot and but everything she says checks out and in the

[3:19:21 - 3:19:26] ▶

happened to her in her life many times and then some guy you got to see the video she says this guy

[3:19:41 - 3:19:48] ▶

she gets into the car with this guy because he's driving her home or something and he gets a tape

[3:20:20 - 3:20:25] ▶

cassette puts it in the car and the tape cassette starts and it's a voice a metallic voice

[3:20:25 - 3:20:32] ▶

and i we want you to work with us you you're going to be the first uh test human to work with us

[3:20:41 - 3:20:51] ▶

and you know do you do you accept this position and and then she she the guy parks and she gets out or

[3:20:52 - 3:21:00] ▶

but apparently it's not her according to everyone who knew her oh that's not her that's not the right

[3:21:29 - 3:21:34] ▶

woman that's not even what she looks like so but and the tape recording we have this which is a

[3:21:34 - 3:21:41] ▶

recorded phone conversation the voice on that which is most definitely her sounds it's it's her on this

[3:21:41 - 3:21:50] ▶

video it sounds just sounds the same it sounds like that voice so it's probably her yeah it's so weird

[3:21:50 - 3:21:55] ▶

touch with me completely out of the blue and this has happened a few times throughout the the making of

[3:22:42 - 3:22:47] ▶

right around the time i was trying to um try to track down valerie he reaches out to me and he's like

[3:23:00 - 3:23:07] ▶

to my head but his facebook looks like the the the quintessential i'm making a fake facebook account

[3:23:49 - 3:23:56] ▶

like hey you know what's going on with the film and is there any way i can see it and hey did you ever

[3:24:21 - 3:24:27] ▶

talk to valerie if you want i can try to get and i just never responded to the guy again it was really

[3:24:27 - 3:24:32] ▶

strange wow and i tried the email that he had that he claimed was valerie's of course it like you know

[3:24:32 - 3:24:39] ▶

incredible yeah i mean there's a lot to get in with into with her but that's that's the gist of

[3:24:57 - 3:25:05] ▶

it and just the fact alone that kit green was involved with her back in the late 70s is really

[3:25:05 - 3:25:10] ▶

strange so strange yeah and early 80s yeah this is crazy it's so it's like there's a woman in the

[3:25:10 - 3:25:19] ▶

nixon white house who's to claim she's channeling aliens and also happens to be on the board of all

[3:25:19 - 3:25:24] ▶

like in the late 70s there really was like so much um unknown about this potential like radio

[3:25:39 - 3:25:47] ▶

think it was like 83 but it was kind of detailing all the research that had gone into like you know

[3:25:51 - 3:25:58] ▶

agitate people and etc so that was kind of like the wild west and that in the late 70s there of like

[3:26:05 - 3:26:10] ▶

i think people trying to figure out what this is what can be done with it and he was just like in in the

[3:26:10 - 3:26:17] ▶

the middle of that and um you know there was a lot of people running around researching that at the

[3:26:17 - 3:26:23] ▶

time and i think there was also a lot of research happening of um you know what's the potential of

[3:26:23 - 3:26:29] ▶

that so it's so wild um what are the implications for all of this on modern ufo disclosure which seems

[3:26:39 - 3:26:49] ▶

faster than light travel that sort of thing what are the implications of the stuff you're looking into

[3:26:58 - 3:27:04] ▶

for for for that i think it's i honestly i i think it's more of the same that we talked about earlier

[3:27:04 - 3:27:14] ▶

that still happens you know i think that's still going on so you know i think the implications are it's

[3:27:22 - 3:27:31] ▶

that's crazy oh oh um the one thing i was going to mention is um this is again an example of something

[3:28:52 - 3:28:58] ▶

who hart is doing a lot of space kids stuff like late 70s into the early 80s and a lot of elf stuff

[3:29:12 - 3:29:17] ▶

was like hey have you ever heard you know the name andrea buharic do you know bob beck that because

[3:29:38 - 3:29:42] ▶

those are the two working at that time um with the space kids and he was like no i've never heard

[3:29:42 - 3:29:49] ▶

the name and he was really nice and he was just like if you come across anything more concrete you

[3:29:49 - 3:29:53] ▶

naval intelligence at one point uh was like a big funder of buharic not not only back in the 50s but

[3:30:00 - 3:30:06] ▶

going into um the early 80s as well but anyways he didn't that's what harold malmgren always said

[3:30:06 - 3:30:14] ▶

he said the the deepest you know kind of core was the o and i office of naval intelligence they really

[3:30:14 - 3:30:21] ▶

knew the most about this stuff yeah he he buharic was in with them very early on and he continued in

[3:30:21 - 3:30:27] ▶

fact there was a um scientist working with buharic at the this time elizabeth rausher she passed away but

[3:30:27 - 3:30:34] ▶

they got like this huge grant from the the oni and i was like you know looking everywhere to try

[3:30:34 - 3:30:41] ▶

information as well he was the i think uh uh deputy director of the cia and the director of the nsa

[3:31:02 - 3:31:10] ▶

at the same time i believe yeah something like that um oh the other thing yeah the last thing i'll say

[3:31:10 - 3:31:17] ▶

is uh not unlike valerie one of the space kids who we did an interview because we couldn't find her but

[3:31:17 - 3:31:25] ▶

like she was the real deal and she was sort of pulled into a project like that that's why she's just

[3:32:10 - 3:32:16] ▶

kind of like wiped off the face there there's nothing about her anywhere again i went to the

[3:32:16 - 3:32:20] ▶

i i wish we could find her like she was a friend of mine and she disappeared just like she was a the whole

[3:32:38 - 3:32:43] ▶

conviction you know i think even the makers of stranger things say that uh it's based off of you

[3:32:56 - 3:33:02] ▶

know the montauk experiments and i think it's pretty well established that there were some experiments in

[3:33:02 - 3:33:07] ▶

secret national labs facilities often associated with the atomic energy commission or federally funded

[3:33:19 - 3:33:25] ▶

says i helped locate these kids he talks about it i mean he says like i was the person who would say you know

[3:33:53 - 3:34:02] ▶

um he talks about helping other countries with this the uk he said he traveled to the uk and helped

[3:34:08 - 3:34:14] ▶

have to ask why this stuff is coming back into vogue like you have the telepathy tapes top the podcast charts

[3:34:24 - 3:34:31] ▶

in the entire country yeah and part of me is thinks it's a beautiful amazing thing and obviously in

[3:34:31 - 3:34:37] ▶

this woman that went on danny jones um i think are actually faking things the mother of one of the kids

[3:34:51 - 3:34:58] ▶

a you know synthetic derivatives like an etf or something if you were to invest in this in the

[3:35:27 - 3:35:31] ▶

things five years ago or something it's just feels like they're all taking off like it feels like the

[3:35:37 - 3:35:44] ▶

the trend is like and are you cynical about that is is there is there i mean maybe even to take that

[3:35:44 - 3:35:50] ▶

etf analogy further are there financial or corporate interests behind the repopularization of some of

[3:35:50 - 3:35:58] ▶

pieces together about the history of all this stuff and i think the fact that it's coming out now is

[3:36:23 - 3:36:28] ▶

mean i don't know like i talked to a kid who claimed he was part of the gate program and i won't say

[3:36:35 - 3:36:40] ▶

wanted to talk to me because it was so similar to the stuff the space kids did that he read about but i

[3:36:46 - 3:36:52] ▶

the same i'm in the same boat as you i don't know what what the motives may be but i think that

[3:36:58 - 3:37:04] ▶

buharic was certainly extremely important in this whole world and the fact that there's never really

[3:37:05 - 3:37:11] ▶

you know you know you're on the right path if you do that but um yeah greg this is an honor man this

[3:37:27 - 3:37:32] ▶

are uncorrelated from other you know i love the the stories you know i love i saw a thing and i was in

[3:37:38 - 3:37:44] ▶

the bed i wasn't you know they put a chip in me like that's it's fascinating but you it's always hard to

[3:37:44 - 3:37:49] ▶

more questions but yeah um i really hope everybody checks out the movie and uh thank you for being here

[3:38:10 - 3:38:15] ▶

yeah head to americanalchemymerch.com to grab official american alchemy merch and support the

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show directly and while you're there the cowboy ufot is a fan favorite we always keep in stock

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This CIA Scientist Led Alien Contact Ceremonies for Elites