corbell jeremy how's it going pretty good man how you doing good you've been on the road a little
[0:00:12 - 0:00:17] ▶
bit huh yeah i tried to get off the road but um we got some big things coming up this uh this year
[0:00:17 - 0:00:22] ▶
we do including this particular episode so you know as as we know all too well the the ufo public
[0:00:22 - 0:00:31] ▶
the government know about ufos we won't settle for anything less where's the bodies where's the
[0:00:36 - 0:00:41] ▶
craft and there are some members of congress that say they want the same thing and you know expectations
[0:00:41 - 0:00:46] ▶
are that sort of disclosure is nigh uh president trump has said he's going to release the files
[0:00:46 - 0:00:52] ▶
my personal expectations are pretty low as usual you're the optimist of the group you know the
[0:00:52 - 0:00:58] ▶
biggest stash of unreleased files as far as we know is somewhere in the bowels of the dia the defense
[0:00:58 - 0:01:05] ▶
intelligence agency information compiled from a program known as osap uh under dia the man who
[0:01:05 - 0:01:12] ▶
created and designed and directed that program the largest known ufo investigation ever funded by the
[0:01:12 - 0:01:18] ▶
the dirs had been made public by me and some other people not one page of the tens of thousands of pages
[0:01:30 - 0:01:37] ▶
created by the osap investigation not one page has been made public if you ask dia they say they can't find
[0:01:37 - 0:01:44] ▶
them you can file all the foil requests you want they've utterly failed so the only things we know
[0:01:44 - 0:01:49] ▶
of books and lakatsky sifted through the official files he wrote about them along with dr kelleher and me
[0:01:56 - 0:02:03] ▶
with some minor uh contributions and um you know the fourth and final book about all sap is now out
[0:02:03 - 0:02:10] ▶
government agencies through the dopser process but he's revealed as much as he's been allowed to reveal
[0:02:16 - 0:02:23] ▶
the work product of this largest ufo program in history and it'll never be enough i think for
[0:02:23 - 0:02:28] ▶
the public for some of the ufo public but as we know from interacting with him on this program
[0:02:28 - 0:02:34] ▶
um it's likely it could be the closest we ever get to actual disclosure what the government knows at
[0:02:34 - 0:02:40] ▶
least in the osap program and then you know jeremy as as you know he doesn't grant many interview
[0:02:40 - 0:02:46] ▶
requests this will be our third bite of the apple uh but i think uh no one other than perhaps connor
[0:02:46 - 0:02:52] ▶
teller knows as much about that program that jim lakatsky and he's sharing with the public the most
[0:02:52 - 0:02:58] ▶
information that can be released uh he fought a lot of battles to get the permission to do it
[0:02:58 - 0:03:03] ▶
including this latest one it's like a glimpse behind the curtain you and he have had some
[0:03:23 - 0:03:28] ▶
get into the spirited debates and i know he can't go further than certain things and i'm not pressing
[0:03:59 - 0:04:05] ▶
that boundary is because it ends up being that the boundary is usually in a really interesting place
[0:04:11 - 0:04:17] ▶
to say because that's the question that we need to answer well we know one place where there's a
[0:04:42 - 0:04:47] ▶
boundary because we've explored it before so maybe third time's the charm so let's jump into it dr jim
[0:04:47 - 0:04:53] ▶
the conversations that we've had on this program and the conversations that you and i have had over the
[0:04:58 - 0:05:03] ▶
haven't got into you and i asked this question in the context of claims that have been made about
[0:05:09 - 0:05:16] ▶
our books your books and about the ufo topic in general that everyone involved in this at an official
[0:05:16 - 0:05:24] ▶
religion in order to influence congress and the pentagon and national policy so i want to ask
[0:05:32 - 0:05:37] ▶
jumped into this subject well uh as to the degrees they're all in nuclear engineering
[0:05:45 - 0:05:52] ▶
in the first book skinwalkers at the pentagon and there was so much new stuff in there people probably
[0:06:22 - 0:06:27] ▶
having all that knowledge they were working under contract for i believe it was the national academy
[0:07:29 - 0:07:34] ▶
visit skinwalker ranch i wanted to hear the real details what is really going on and that's what dia was
[0:07:51 - 0:08:00] ▶
interested in now the study group it didn't have time to do that so basically they just fell off the
[0:08:00 - 0:08:07] ▶
plate i had a couple queries uh after they provided me with the correct addresses and phone numbers as to
[0:08:07 - 0:08:14] ▶
are you doing anything and of course by that time the answer became no and so everything was under
[0:08:15 - 0:08:22] ▶
seen that up to this day and the four books they're a controlled disclosure of the information that we
[0:08:29 - 0:08:38] ▶
wanted to put for with pentagon approval the the way it's been described to me by your colleague and
[0:08:38 - 0:08:45] ▶
friend jay stratton is you two guys were both at dia at the same time with different sort of specialties
[0:08:45 - 0:08:51] ▶
and then and eventually you guys compared notes and and we know what the the rest of the history is is
[0:08:58 - 0:09:04] ▶
what we call the air team he worked on air threats and he was i don't know if he was on assignment to dia
[0:09:15 - 0:09:23] ▶
from o and i or if he was a dia uh uh employee at the time but we also had other members within those
[0:09:23 - 0:09:35] ▶
teams he was head of that group i was head of the missile threat enemy missile threat to the united states
[0:09:35 - 0:09:43] ▶
of wow you know skinwalker ranch that is the wildest place i've ever heard of and little did they know
[0:09:49 - 0:09:57] ▶
that the management didn't know what was going on it wasn't going sideways that's your greatest danger
[0:10:04 - 0:10:12] ▶
the internet and and and i have learned over the years there's no use in fighting back against them
[0:10:31 - 0:10:38] ▶
because they spread faster than you could ever keep up but the false information i mean one of the
[0:10:38 - 0:10:46] ▶
best was the battle between bigelow's guards with automatic weapons and and aliens with lasers that
[0:10:46 - 0:10:54] ▶
in there too of course over the years you had no religious type beliefs about ufos aliens
[0:11:01 - 0:11:08] ▶
see the relationship at first and then i saw the relationship that ufos were under the paranormal
[0:11:16 - 0:11:24] ▶
about people who don't believe in the connection because if if anything that's what we proved
[0:11:32 - 0:11:38] ▶
couldn't repeat things but new cases as you know kept popping up all the time jeremy take it away
[0:11:47 - 0:11:55] ▶
academically fusion research you know power and then utility in the utility sector kind of nuclear
[0:12:05 - 0:12:12] ▶
engineering is that correct yes i was uh uh in the utility basically i was employed for doing startup
[0:12:12 - 0:12:21] ▶
uh so but that only lasted six seven months because all that time i've talked let's look back in the old
[0:12:30 - 0:12:38] ▶
clearance i believe it was called an l clearance in dole and then uh once i was employed there i went after the
[0:12:48 - 0:12:57] ▶
attack submarines and then the opportunity my wife's a nuclear engineer too and the area we were living in
[0:13:06 - 0:13:16] ▶
my calling at the at a contractor that supported countermeasures and threat to the missile defense
[0:13:34 - 0:13:41] ▶
find out where you were working and what you were doing it looked like from the university of tennessee
[0:13:47 - 0:13:52] ▶
torsatron to reactor torsatron reactor and um when you were there also so you focused on the plasma
[0:14:00 - 0:14:07] ▶
on because i had the clearance at the time and i was doing classified work both with doe and dod and
[0:14:32 - 0:14:43] ▶
multiple levels even to the highest but that's not buildable it was okay it's visible with the technology
[0:15:00 - 0:15:09] ▶
of the time in the uh 80s and 90s right so it might be now but but you're i just want to make sure so
[0:15:09 - 0:15:17] ▶
were embedded in oak ridge's fusion program ecosystem kind of back in the in the early 80s yes
[0:15:24 - 0:15:32] ▶
the torsatron concept ever come about it totally successfully well mine were theoretical calculations
[0:15:52 - 0:16:03] ▶
and the theory ultimately did not hold up it was for startup of a fusion reactor at extremely low power
[0:16:03 - 0:16:11] ▶
levels and not in other words you wouldn't have to put much money uh energy in in order to go to the
[0:16:11 - 0:16:18] ▶
know quite comfortable handling all of the 38 special studies that we we did because i understood them all
[0:16:42 - 0:16:50] ▶
right and i i had to understand him i was the editor because we got 38 different styles coming in
[0:16:50 - 0:16:59] ▶
the corrections your latest book the last uh book that you intend to write about osap you've told me
[0:17:06 - 0:17:14] ▶
that taken together they in essence uh are the equivalent of disclosure am i overstating it no i believe
[0:17:14 - 0:17:23] ▶
no i mentioned last time on your program the foundation of kona blue actually now your readers can
[0:17:39 - 0:17:48] ▶
do this i think both of you are doing it but if you go through all four of the books you can see the
[0:17:48 - 0:17:56] ▶
structure that we first put in skinwalkers in the pentagon as a future program you can see that matches up
[0:17:56 - 0:18:04] ▶
almost exactly with the program that uh dhs and dod release on what kona blue was to be
[0:18:04 - 0:18:13] ▶
had access to the highest levels of threat intelligence but you had to release it at the secret level so
[0:18:31 - 0:18:39] ▶
story out of thin air at the secret level it had to be supported by the higher level intelligence it was
[0:18:51 - 0:18:58] ▶
the truth and we did the same thing throughout aussap uh when it was untrue that it was an unclassified
[0:18:58 - 0:19:07] ▶
program it was com it was highly classified but everything you got out here and checked by the
[0:19:07 - 0:19:14] ▶
pentagon is unclassified but the story's in there i can't emphasize that anymore you're going through it
[0:19:14 - 0:19:22] ▶
bit by bit uh one thing that does upset me is when i see things on the internet of people diligently
[0:19:22 - 0:19:31] ▶
going through the books diligently and they're going in the wrong direction and i can't say anything
[0:19:31 - 0:19:37] ▶
it's it's just the way it is they're filling in the the blanks with things that aren't true so george i
[0:19:38 - 0:19:44] ▶
you know the deepest move of this book as i'm reading through it it's not like one sensational claim
[0:19:44 - 0:19:50] ▶
uh dr lakatsky you're like building an institutional argument kind of that the u.s government ran a serious
[0:19:50 - 0:19:58] ▶
medically aware broad spectrum technically framed program that found the phenomenon to be stranger
[0:19:58 - 0:20:05] ▶
more interactive and more consequential than like the simple aircraft identification problem we used to
[0:20:05 - 0:20:12] ▶
call ufos is that fair to say that you know you followed the data into the taboo that's correct uh
[0:20:12 - 0:20:21] ▶
right from the beginning and we've if people thought that the uh request for proposal was
[0:20:21 - 0:20:29] ▶
uh and but we were very specific of going with the small contractors because we knew that with a small
[0:20:36 - 0:20:43] ▶
for this contract they could form it from the ground up we weren't inheriting a structure from a big
[0:20:52 - 0:21:00] ▶
aerospace space company we were sure they had the personnel but the thing is is were they going to go
[0:21:00 - 0:21:08] ▶
down the direction that dia wanted and the answer is of course no so everything is above board we did
[0:21:08 - 0:21:17] ▶
the proper contracting uh we we just did everything and we're all insistent on that and so senator reed
[0:21:17 - 0:21:26] ▶
and in a way etc uh and they monitored the contract closely to see that dia did not veer off we weren't we
[0:21:26 - 0:21:37] ▶
it low-key we were doing it in the correct place and we knew a lot was being produced it just we didn't
[0:21:43 - 0:21:52] ▶
plan to release it but i do remember the meeting in 2016 it was after i retired 2017 with senator reed
[0:21:52 - 0:22:02] ▶
out in las vegas where i came i just made the statement and you were there george i made the
[0:22:02 - 0:22:08] ▶
statement i'm gonna have to write a book now did i realize it was i look at the stack over here and
[0:22:08 - 0:22:18] ▶
i'd like to see if the public comes to the same structure for kona blue as as we did based upon an
[0:22:26 - 0:22:34] ▶
examination over a year of the data in these four books and who feel that certain portions of the work
[0:22:34 - 0:22:43] ▶
by the government and and funding either uh from the government or external at this point it's it's it's
[0:23:03 - 0:23:11] ▶
it's i always think back it's like a a phd thesis a a dissertation could be like the wild west you just
[0:23:11 - 0:23:21] ▶
done now with kona blue we need to move ahead we're not collecting information on lights in the sky
[0:23:29 - 0:23:35] ▶
and i'm surprised we were able to release uh legally what we we put in pentagon so that the dia is aware
[0:23:59 - 0:24:07] ▶
the pentagon the the dia itself is very aware now because of your work that there are close contact
[0:24:07 - 0:24:14] ▶
is pursuing they're in the four books well how do you read it just like you're doing you read and
[0:24:39 - 0:24:46] ▶
lot do a lot think they can discuss these books on the on the internet and they're getting the gist of it all
[0:24:53 - 0:25:00] ▶
no way are you the four books again i mean it seems like it's the equivalent disclosure given that
[0:25:00 - 0:25:10] ▶
these cases that are in there and the specifics and the incidents that happened were investigated by
[0:25:10 - 0:25:16] ▶
did happen uh what you don't do in the books is sort of draw conclusions um hey these are aliens these
[0:25:21 - 0:25:28] ▶
of what you need to know and the government doesn't know much more there are people that think they
[0:25:51 - 0:25:59] ▶
that way as in you didn't like the term textbook it's been used on reviews of these books but
[0:26:05 - 0:26:11] ▶
a guide books let's use that term guide books uh do you remember the old days when you could open
[0:26:12 - 0:26:18] ▶
buy at the at the store maps you had to draw you know a paper map and heaven help if you took your
[0:26:18 - 0:26:27] ▶
eyes off the steering wheels but because you had to read the map but there is not the iphones weren't
[0:26:27 - 0:26:34] ▶
providing you anything uh the early days of the iphones providing you things i even knew people that
[0:26:34 - 0:26:41] ▶
do we have all the answers no but the younger folks will develop those answers and they'll
[0:26:55 - 0:27:02] ▶
does anyone know does anyone you know know the answers to the big questions who are they is it
[0:27:10 - 0:27:16] ▶
you know the answers to those and does anyone else in the government intelligence community know i don't
[0:27:20 - 0:27:26] ▶
and i don't know anyone that does and i would seriously question their claim that they do the
[0:27:26 - 0:27:33] ▶
fact you're not wasting your time doing research as you're doing it the both of you and anyone in the
[0:27:33 - 0:27:39] ▶
by the way no one has ever raised the question in these books where whatever happened you know this
[0:27:48 - 0:27:55] ▶
george whatever happened to the plans of the university program those went there was a firm
[0:27:55 - 0:28:02] ▶
happened with kona blue at dhs at least part of it uh they just died on the vine something got in the way
[0:28:10 - 0:28:20] ▶
and uh i don't know i guess it's if people were scared in the universities to form what would have
[0:28:21 - 0:28:29] ▶
of of committing to it and i think enrollment would have been through the roof if it was just one or two
[0:28:38 - 0:28:45] ▶
courses okay everything that's in these books was thoroughly investigated all the cases all the incidents
[0:28:45 - 0:28:55] ▶
all the locations uh and you know you you've got some general themes throughout these are craft many
[0:28:55 - 0:29:03] ▶
it's happening all over the world and everything that you've written in these four books is approved
[0:29:10 - 0:29:15] ▶
so the reaction of course from the naysayers is this is drip drip drip um you know it's it's government
[0:29:21 - 0:29:27] ▶
propaganda it's preparing us for a false flag um are you happy now that the four books are done with
[0:29:27 - 0:29:34] ▶
osap and kona blue i i i i expect to be able to do that uh can we have all the details probably not and
[0:29:47 - 0:29:59] ▶
is is is it important to have all the details are we are we skewing people's minds in the in a small but
[0:29:59 - 0:30:08] ▶
still significant wrong directions but uh i don't think anything has been skewed in the wrong direction with what's in here
[0:30:08 - 0:30:16] ▶
we've just opened up the door by saying hey this is real you need to do your research your due diligence
[0:30:16 - 0:30:23] ▶
if you expect the the government to carry the ball on this i wouldn't uh but uh that uh it's wide open now
[0:30:23 - 0:30:34] ▶
as i was saying before the university business
[0:30:34 - 0:30:36] ▶
section of people of the general public all the way to the phd level the thing is is is there's
[0:31:18 - 0:31:26] ▶
this and this is something a lot of people say to me is dr lakatsi is the only one that's out there
[0:31:40 - 0:31:44] ▶
saying hey the intelligence community needs to pass this information forward to the next generation
[0:31:44 - 0:31:50] ▶
informed on the uap issue do you do you feel that way because you push for that a lot that we should have
[0:31:56 - 0:32:01] ▶
it is and the u and i feel that way and i think it's happening on on many other topics many others
[0:32:01 - 0:32:09] ▶
and there simply isn't the personnel perhaps perhaps with how i have seen ai develop uh the advanced
[0:32:18 - 0:32:28] ▶
systems that it can be better handled but jeremy you're correct the history is being lost as we
[0:32:28 - 0:32:37] ▶
speak it's being lost it's being tossed out it can't nothing's being loaded to the degree it has
[0:32:37 - 0:32:45] ▶
of fraser verse ali got a direct question um you know rep burleson is kind of like the people's champ
[0:33:00 - 0:33:06] ▶
non-human intelligence craft like the one that you admitted to that we breached the whole of so my
[0:33:35 - 0:33:41] ▶
question is you know have you ever been to the pax river facility and is there a craft there how was
[0:33:41 - 0:33:48] ▶
there ever a craft there well i i can answer part of the question i can say yes i've been there yes
[0:33:48 - 0:33:55] ▶
i've seen the facility but it was it was uh just built so uh i can't say what was going to go in there
[0:33:55 - 0:34:05] ▶
i don't know because they wouldn't have a need for that i would think didn't it was going on the
[0:34:27 - 0:34:34] ▶
did they build the facility at pax to hold um a uap or a non-human oh i don't i don't know what the
[0:34:36 - 0:34:41] ▶
um a lot of the things that uh are really interesting in this new book future visions
[0:34:49 - 0:34:54] ▶
with the world to a degree you really break down specific effects that were measurable physical effects
[0:34:58 - 0:35:04] ▶
of strange signals um you give data data concerning the number of sightings of
[0:35:04 - 0:35:10] ▶
shouldn't exist and and others and you it's not just based on the ranch itself you guys for osap you
[0:35:20 - 0:35:26] ▶
had this increasingly large concentric circles around the ranch you went out there talked people into
[0:35:26 - 0:35:33] ▶
many of the cases or many of the sightings were seen by multiple people some may have been in the
[0:36:17 - 0:36:22] ▶
at the same time how to explain that how to explain the fact that uh
[0:36:29 - 0:36:35] ▶
that's one of the reasons we didn't try to explain it was tough enough just gathering this information
[0:36:57 - 0:37:03] ▶
because by the way you just didn't walk up to the neighbor of the of skinwalker ranch and and ask
[0:37:03 - 0:37:08] ▶
them strange questions they would have thrown you off the uh uh off their property that's the the the
[0:37:08 - 0:37:16] ▶
the one really interesting man in black case uh where he came was it a black escalade or a black
[0:37:16 - 0:37:24] ▶
shoes uh it's it's it's almost humorous some of the stuff we collected and it's all been verified it's
[0:37:31 - 0:37:40] ▶
just odd it's sort of the brilliance of osap that you were willing to follow the evidence wherever it
[0:37:40 - 0:37:47] ▶
led and were willing to share the information no how no matter how crazy it sounds because let's say
[0:37:47 - 0:37:54] ▶
that was a government program you think those reports would have bubbled to the surface or they
[0:37:54 - 0:37:58] ▶
would um no they would never in fact they they they they bubbled off the ranch a bit but i wouldn't say
[0:37:58 - 0:38:09] ▶
extensively they are always uh people saying we've heard rumors about what goes on in the ranch
[0:38:09 - 0:38:17] ▶
the government is moved in there uh these strange things occur but the first the first statements
[0:38:17 - 0:38:25] ▶
because they're thinking there well these these these these are contractors for the government we don't
[0:38:38 - 0:38:45] ▶
government in in this way that it's so compartmentalized this uap thing that you found that the license
[0:38:51 - 0:38:58] ▶
our our our government people to that didn't work for the ossep directly but who were involved with it
[0:39:10 - 0:39:18] ▶
to gather that information but i think that's one of the uh i think perhaps jeremy you're not looking at
[0:39:18 - 0:39:27] ▶
that in the right way have i mentioned in the books we were suspicious that there was
[0:39:27 - 0:39:33] ▶
a leak at mufon that someone from the government in some organization not us we were we were having
[0:39:33 - 0:39:44] ▶
them gather information directly for us and we got it directly the good cases directly from mufon
[0:39:44 - 0:39:50] ▶
but we couldn't respond instantly nor did we have people on site across the country they had to fly
[0:39:59 - 0:40:05] ▶
looking at a completely re uh a legitimate reason and it's not working against the government they're
[0:40:22 - 0:40:29] ▶
seeing was not a government classified was there another government classified program out at the ranch ever
[0:40:38 - 0:40:45] ▶
and that we kept our our stuff uh on the straight and narrow we didn't want to go off on the primrose
[0:40:54 - 0:41:01] ▶
thank heavens the drones were just under development 10 15 years ago uh when they send them in
[0:41:08 - 0:41:16] ▶
people would come to the front gate that the guard force had their handle had their hands on their
[0:41:23 - 0:41:30] ▶
hands full right at the front gate now i will say at the front gate was where money was materializing out of
[0:41:30 - 0:41:38] ▶
explain that again it wasn't outside the gate money materializing the circle is that why brandon bought the ranch
[0:41:47 - 0:41:53] ▶
approached um by a naval intelligence individual and we're given i i mean i got an earful with the
[0:42:09 - 0:42:15] ▶
did but honestly i haven't heard of it back to the money sorry um at the ranch so one of the things that's
[0:42:45 - 0:42:53] ▶
emanating from the mesa at the ranch which is very consistent with what the tv show is pursuing these
[0:43:01 - 0:43:06] ▶
days and at the same time in the same section of the book you say that there were counter measures
[0:43:06 - 0:43:11] ▶
can you share with us uh the the nature of the signals that you detected and whether the counter
[0:43:20 - 0:43:24] ▶
measures that were taken how they worked and were they related to that signal coming from the mesa
[0:43:24 - 0:43:29] ▶
well we didn't have to take counter measures against the signal it was intermittent but uh
[0:43:30 - 0:43:37] ▶
early and that had to do with the uh the placement of transmitting phones by the way government gsa approved
[0:43:48 - 0:43:57] ▶
transmission radius of about uh one to one point five kilometers uh they were not installed at the ranch
[0:44:04 - 0:44:12] ▶
tracking devices uh they were looked at on vehicles that were back in vegas and there were scrapes on the
[0:44:24 - 0:44:33] ▶
underneath of the vehicles where was the standard place to put these tracking devices so they'd been removed by
[0:44:33 - 0:44:39] ▶
uh they were not installed by people but the the phones themselves had been found uh one of those phones
[0:44:39 - 0:44:47] ▶
on the osap project uh that was early on well we're thinking if they're doing this back in vegas they might
[0:44:56 - 0:45:05] ▶
be doing this up at the ranch you'd be spied on yes and so we brought in professional organizations that
[0:45:05 - 0:45:12] ▶
were recognized by dia to check and see and there were there wasn't anything of i think the bottom line
[0:45:12 - 0:45:21] ▶
asked to do this to transmit all the database that we were gathering from around the world to transmit
[0:45:47 - 0:45:54] ▶
rush on that we had the special processing done on the tsscis but that was management and team lead level
[0:46:13 - 0:46:21] ▶
ufos for the government government official program and somebody some entity was employing people to put
[0:46:35 - 0:46:42] ▶
trackers on cars and bug the phones in a secure facility back at big little aerospace right and we had uh
[0:46:42 - 0:46:48] ▶
uh we had counterintelligence you know who's in charge of it in this country is the fbi we had
[0:46:48 - 0:46:56] ▶
them come in and do briefings and what's the current status at both locations and so you know we did our
[0:46:56 - 0:47:03] ▶
due diligence so we were fairly confident that we weren't being spied on i can't speak to the ranch right
[0:47:03 - 0:47:10] ▶
now i i know brandon fugal is doing a great job up there of furthering the research um and with
[0:47:10 - 0:47:19] ▶
we've had the nor the usual parties we think russia china israel
[0:47:26 - 0:47:33] ▶
uh well you it's some or all of the above i mean or none of the above but it it that's the only
[0:47:33 - 0:47:42] ▶
conclusion you could come to because you know we never traced it back to the source the main thing
[0:47:42 - 0:47:48] ▶
and as you noted in in the books being complete what were they really learning other than the fact
[0:47:55 - 0:48:02] ▶
secret documents at the ranch that was all back in vegas uh so uh you there were some amazing uh
[0:48:10 - 0:48:20] ▶
experiments that were undertaken and questions that remain that at the ranch and we've talked about some
[0:48:20 - 0:48:25] ▶
of them before but i i started this part of the conversation by asking about the electromagnetic signals
[0:48:25 - 0:48:31] ▶
that seemed to be coming from the mesa um did you ever figure out what those were and why was it
[0:48:31 - 0:48:36] ▶
worth pursuing was it because they're transitory they're there one day and gone the next well that
[0:48:36 - 0:48:42] ▶
was the that's the key answer transitory uh we certainly had that during uh our uh
[0:48:42 - 0:48:50] ▶
uh our time there i mean there was a case which i think i can describe in the
[0:48:50 - 0:48:58] ▶
you know that was by a reliable person now you already know about the levitating objects uh you know
[0:49:10 - 0:49:17] ▶
there at the ranch i'm talking about an actual person uh uh in the air so um
[0:49:17 - 0:49:24] ▶
we um we didn't try to explain as you've commented before and certain events that were clearly off the
[0:49:27 - 0:49:38] ▶
the the uh the property itself because the mesa wasn't on the property and i remember bob bigelow taking
[0:49:38 - 0:49:46] ▶
me up there to check the mesa and he went up the most to me and neither him to go up this route i had no
[0:49:46 - 0:49:56] ▶
idea why we were going up straight up well he wanted to know to get me the full impact uh and that was
[0:49:56 - 0:50:06] ▶
after i saw what i saw inside the ranch house which is kind of a repetitive as i now understand it a
[0:50:06 - 0:50:14] ▶
repetitive in the area i was saying i wasn't the only one to see something in that location you did
[0:50:14 - 0:50:22] ▶
whoever they are well uh bob bigelow uh directed column and column handled the you know the legitimacy of
[0:50:37 - 0:50:46] ▶
the experiments of uh moving objects uh moving uh the patterns on a board uh things like that which were
[0:50:46 - 0:50:57] ▶
uh the uh uh the uh uh odd time discrepancies in plants that would grow too fast not grow at all uh
[0:50:57 - 0:51:10] ▶
versus being in las vegas the exact same plants and there were you know i guess i haven't really
[0:51:11 - 0:51:20] ▶
mentioned it in the book what we would have to assume to be time anomalies there too you know with
[0:51:20 - 0:51:26] ▶
certainly the plant growth i mean if a plant is is growing at double the rate it should be that's
[0:51:26 - 0:51:34] ▶
we were very heavy on the experimentation but that's very typical for how the intelligence community thinks
[0:51:43 - 0:51:49] ▶
uh gathering information that's that's how the the acquisition community works too gathering information
[0:51:50 - 0:51:58] ▶
and data is very important especially on experiments the problem is having the time and the money to
[0:51:58 - 0:52:05] ▶
analyze it and we were we were doing the best we could we interrupt this program to bring you a special report
[0:52:05 - 0:52:18] ▶
a tip is exactly as i described it here now the day they started using a tip in 2015-16 to describe their their uh
[0:52:20 - 0:52:36] ▶
what do you describe it as but no a tip was the name was created uh for use in senator reed's letter
[0:52:52 - 0:53:02] ▶
for our first attempt for material transfer it came and went the next time i really saw a tip was uh uh
[0:53:02 - 0:53:13] ▶
uh uh uh in in the the new york times article right exactly so so we've just we've kind of got it wrong
[0:53:13 - 0:53:24] ▶
and we we've kind of beaten the dead horse about this but um you know you talk about that name coming
[0:53:24 - 0:53:29] ▶
up in the reed letter for a material transfer you you are talking about a ufo the transfer of a ufo or
[0:53:29 - 0:53:35] ▶
hardware yes or no i mean well jeremy what would you think the answer would be well i know what the
[0:53:54 - 0:54:02] ▶
answer is i'm just curious if you can say it i don't think that i that i should i think that the
[0:54:02 - 0:54:10] ▶
letter needs to stand on its own merits it's been brought up even recently the letter what does it
[0:54:10 - 0:54:17] ▶
really mean well dhs and answer the question right there yeah you get accused of talking in circles
[0:54:17 - 0:54:25] ▶
and the and i was happy that i said thank heavens they don't know what they're talking about on this
[0:55:12 - 0:55:17] ▶
show they're describing all the details so i am very i try to be very cautious i can't say anything
[0:55:17 - 0:55:25] ▶
more about reed's letter but what what do the both of you think i think they were moving a ufo from
[0:55:25 - 0:55:32] ▶
lockheed martin um you know to trying to move ufo from lockheed martin to to the offset program am i an
[0:55:32 - 0:55:38] ▶
idiot dr lakatsky well he no but the thing is there's there's let's go back baby steps here what
[0:55:38 - 0:55:47] ▶
would be the first thing you would do then then a transfer
[0:55:47 - 0:55:50] ▶
it could be an inspection it could be we were looking for a list that's the that's the first
[0:56:09 - 0:56:16] ▶
request for us uh now we were able to look for the list let's let's jump off that for a moment
[0:56:40 - 0:56:47] ▶
recovered materials recovered materials huh it was a list but it had and we were given the exact
[0:56:55 - 0:57:03] ▶
the book go baby steps if people want to get a hundred percent answer no one has that to give you
[0:57:17 - 0:57:24] ▶
well is the word deception from let us say uh suspected aliens let's let's use that don't don't dismiss
[0:57:35 - 0:57:44] ▶
the word deception on broad terms their part oh the the messengers of deception meaning the visitors
[0:57:44 - 0:57:53] ▶
your own conclusions the dad is there there's a lot of stuff in these books and i'm not pitching pitching
[0:58:21 - 0:58:28] ▶
selling these things because remember they're they're hard copies are no they're the i guess we sell
[0:58:28 - 0:58:35] ▶
a fair amount of those but the electronic copies are fine forgetting the gist the virgo copies
[0:58:35 - 0:58:42] ▶
well i i'm a person where words go in one ear and out the other well hold on george george is
[0:58:43 - 0:58:49] ▶
dr lukatsky saying that we can't dismiss deception from the visitors themselves that's right that's what
[0:58:49 - 0:58:54] ▶
sort of the origins of osap and you know you've covered different threads through the four books but
[0:59:08 - 0:59:14] ▶
you know the first very first incident case investigated by osap was tic tac maybe the most
[0:59:14 - 0:59:21] ▶
consequential ufo series of events ever given the effects of when it came out and uh and your
[0:59:21 - 0:59:29] ▶
colleague jay stratton did the first uh form of the investigation put together a report we're now 22
[0:59:29 - 0:59:36] ▶
years later and uh you know the implication keeps leaking out from we think we know who um oh yeah
[0:59:36 - 0:59:45] ▶
that's one of ours we were just testing it and seeing how the navy would react which seems preposterous but
[0:59:45 - 0:59:50] ▶
that the capabilities of that weapon system would be revolutionary change the world maybe you could
[0:59:56 - 1:00:01] ▶
conquer the world with just one of them if we had it but take us back to tic tac what you've learned
[1:00:01 - 1:00:07] ▶
then what you've learned since was that ours or was it somebody else's and i ask in the context of arrow
[1:00:07 - 1:00:13] ▶
which the last time we talked out of conversation here you basically agreed with us that it looks like a
[1:00:13 - 1:00:19] ▶
counterintelligence operation which of course arrow is like the roach motel the old ads for the roach
[1:00:19 - 1:00:24] ▶
yet to formally dismiss um explain uh discourage uh interest in the tic tac is tic tac still legit is it
[1:00:31 - 1:00:42] ▶
ours do we have anything like it and if we did why the hell don't we use it what do you think well i think
[1:00:42 - 1:00:48] ▶
you're you're you're right asking the right questions i'm not the right one to answer on some of them
[1:00:48 - 1:00:54] ▶
postulated at the time and that we're certainly seeing now uh you know now we're talking about
[1:01:45 - 1:01:52] ▶
drones that fly from one country to another but uh the the answer to your question is
[1:01:52 - 1:01:59] ▶
uh there were some things that still haven't been released that were classified on um on uh the tic tac
[1:01:59 - 1:02:10] ▶
incident so i think if i was just jim of the street the jim public
[1:02:10 - 1:02:18] ▶
i i i wouldn't believe it if anyone told me that that was a classified program of the u.s that i i just
[1:02:18 - 1:02:28] ▶
i just can't believe that but but the thing is is there's classified programs that are your developments
[1:02:28 - 1:02:36] ▶
and you know crumbs that you've picked up in the forest you know that would be quite the crumb
[1:02:37 - 1:02:47] ▶
uh if you know what i mean yeah if there are crumbs left in the forest for you to follow
[1:02:47 - 1:02:53] ▶
device as you saw in in uh in some of the specialized studies here which weren't much of a study
[1:03:00 - 1:03:08] ▶
you have a couple of sections in this new book about the russian files the thread three files
[1:03:34 - 1:03:41] ▶
and where it led can you give us a summary of what you learned from those uh what was learned and the
[1:03:41 - 1:03:47] ▶
significant conclusions that you could draw from the documents that came back from from the ussr former
[1:03:47 - 1:03:52] ▶
i would say that we this is contrary to what's out there on the internet that we patterned our program
[1:04:12 - 1:04:22] ▶
after these well we received them too late in the program to uh to actually pattern anything after the
[1:04:22 - 1:04:31] ▶
the uh thread three uh documents we were in the process of uh studying them and uh
[1:04:32 - 1:04:40] ▶
uh that's when uh we were running into rough waters with the program continuing beyond and actually
[1:04:40 - 1:04:48] ▶
the program um so contrary to what people say we were duplicating the russian program no we had no
[1:04:53 - 1:05:02] ▶
knowledge of it at the time uh so i mean other than the word thread three we certainly didn't have
[1:05:02 - 1:05:11] ▶
read over the thread three documents of course that's 30 years difference though both companies were
[1:05:26 - 1:05:32] ▶
offensively were pursuing the same thing they just had it started 30 30 years earlier yes that's true um
[1:05:32 - 1:05:38] ▶
but they didn't do it in the same way for example they were i don't know if they had a
[1:05:40 - 1:05:46] ▶
were dealing with them and they were supplying us the key cases um we were able to really utilize that
[1:05:54 - 1:06:04] ▶
properly i didn't see the where the russians were making any attempt to do that so and and to lock into
[1:06:05 - 1:06:13] ▶
made a similar decision and besides remember when we use the term acquire materials those materials
[1:06:23 - 1:06:32] ▶
obviously have been looked at before so it's just another set of eyeballs on on the same thing
[1:06:32 - 1:06:39] ▶
colleague colin keller has stated publicly that he suspected that whatever the intelligence was
[1:06:48 - 1:06:54] ▶
operating at skinwalker ranch and then in the uinti basin might be in a machine intelligence and it
[1:06:54 - 1:07:00] ▶
a machine a version of a machine well we're using our current terminology i mean the answer is yes but
[1:07:13 - 1:07:23] ▶
not in the way you think a machine machine we're not let's not go back to the old star treks and the
[1:07:23 - 1:07:29] ▶
beyond that even in the conceptual role so the thing is is what's a machine what's a human what's
[1:07:39 - 1:07:49] ▶
what's an alien in the future a combination of all probably well let's say a machine intelligence ai
[1:07:49 - 1:07:58] ▶
when the critch comes to shove but the fact is is that uh as as you well know among any of us here or
[1:08:21 - 1:08:31] ▶
among your listeners there are other locations that are just as substantial as the ranch if not more so
[1:08:31 - 1:08:38] ▶
and it is unusual too what you designed for the cover it didn't turn out that way correct
[1:09:15 - 1:09:19] ▶
i let loose on this one i i asked ai to come up with this one based upon reading the books what
[1:09:19 - 1:09:30] ▶
the fact is i'm i'm i'm constantly asked on on these three books or two of them the last two um
[1:09:38 - 1:09:46] ▶
i had to put the star field back in the high resolution this is a technical issue with however
[1:09:56 - 1:10:02] ▶
amazon produces these the entire star field disappears i have no idea why but the the basic what you see
[1:10:02 - 1:10:10] ▶
here on the covers you know on the previous one on new insights the the square was suggested and drawn
[1:10:10 - 1:10:22] ▶
more more thoughts into it i mean it put into the the sheeting if you look real close there's there's panels on the uh on the uh the square
[1:10:34 - 1:10:45] ▶
it put it in so i utilize ai in in regard to the cover but i will tell you that not one word other than
[1:10:51 - 1:11:01] ▶
suggestions on the index which is as always confused me is how am i supposed to form an index on these
[1:11:01 - 1:11:11] ▶
documents when you don't know what's in the document so i'm having to come up with innovative i've asked ai
[1:11:11 - 1:11:18] ▶
its suggestions but i i still have to do it but not a word not a word in the rest of the documents is ai
[1:11:18 - 1:11:26] ▶
you know uh mr bigelow our mutual friend yes gave me the green light to go ahead and say to congress
[1:11:34 - 1:11:40] ▶
that there was a negotiation going on between lockheed martin and bass to acquire materials to the transfer of materials
[1:11:40 - 1:11:48] ▶
and he you know that's the first time he's ever said yeah you can go ahead and say it publicly under oath
[1:11:49 - 1:11:54] ▶
and then you know that's the first time you're going to be able to do it um the implication is that there are
[1:11:54 - 1:11:56] ▶
it was authorized by all the adopter process somebody wanted that to be said i mean to go that far it's
[1:12:12 - 1:12:20] ▶
give it in the context of right now president trump has said i'm going to release the files which whether
[1:12:29 - 1:12:34] ▶
interest among the public certainly to see whatever there is you and i and jeremy know they're only going
[1:12:39 - 1:12:46] ▶
the files uh i can see it happening but you you qualified your questioning uh there with under this
[1:13:20 - 1:13:29] ▶
administration and possibly under a near term administration the answer to that is i don't
[1:13:29 - 1:13:35] ▶
believe so but it will it'll go further you know in the future excuse me it'll go further
[1:13:35 - 1:13:42] ▶
a lot of the things we as you can tell i'm deflecting your questions oh and they never happened before
[1:13:42 - 1:13:53] ▶
here right no it's the first time but uh the thing is is is i really can't go further you know i i think
[1:13:53 - 1:14:02] ▶
that uh you mentioned was it the last time i interviewed with you uh that uh uh congressman burleson
[1:14:02 - 1:14:12] ▶
because i'm not answering right now you're you're pushing the envelope you've gone beyond the envelope
[1:14:27 - 1:14:32] ▶
wouldn't be allowed to answer them on some of the um more sensitive compartmentalized issues of uap okay
[1:14:39 - 1:14:46] ▶
if other individuals or an individual asked me higher level wow equivalent level in the constitution so you're
[1:14:55 - 1:15:04] ▶
people have lied during the hearings i've i know that people have lied and they've raised now hold
[1:15:26 - 1:15:33] ▶
the difference between a lie and exaggeration and pure fantasy okay but just as you you've said it hold
[1:15:54 - 1:16:02] ▶
senior chief wiggins not jeff mucitelli oh here you're going to go through all the people no i'm not
[1:16:46 - 1:16:54] ▶
particularly has lied in congress and you know it but you won't elaborate that we take the the the
[1:16:59 - 1:17:04] ▶
who have testified and and those are the people you brought in you're saying i brought in almost
[1:17:43 - 1:17:49] ▶
and i won't answer anymore the fact is i made a statement that there was falsehoods made uh uh
[1:17:54 - 1:18:00] ▶
uh the source of those falsehoods hoods could be total delusion i think otherwise other people think
[1:18:00 - 1:18:08] ▶
referencing and i just think it's important to just separate the people so that you don't paint the
[1:18:14 - 1:18:19] ▶
false target on your back that's necessary i think this is part of the research
[1:18:19 - 1:18:23] ▶
bit of information from some of the people i don't i don't even know i know there's a disconnect here
[1:18:31 - 1:18:37] ▶
saying somebody lied and i want to make sure to take the false target off of certain people's backs so
[1:18:42 - 1:18:47] ▶
the public doesn't start creating and filling in nonsense again but we'll move on i just wanted to make
[1:18:47 - 1:18:52] ▶
it's just like enough there's another reason i won't testify at congress that the boat is sailed on
[1:19:00 - 1:19:08] ▶
can't be undone poor kids on the internet kill themselves because of the same reason false stories
[1:19:31 - 1:19:39] ▶
about them back to the idea of disclosure you know the public has its ideas of what disclosure should
[1:19:39 - 1:19:46] ▶
be the president has issued a directive it's not an executive authority has no authority behind it to
[1:19:46 - 1:19:53] ▶
that sort the osap materials so taken together these four books are the closest we are to actual
[1:19:59 - 1:20:06] ▶
disclosure given that everything you've written has been authorized by the various people and agencies
[1:20:06 - 1:20:12] ▶
in the process as of this time it's it's effectively as you said jordan's disclosure is there concern if
[1:20:12 - 1:20:21] ▶
you think forward in what disclosure in the forms it could take whatever trump and and uh the his agencies
[1:20:21 - 1:20:29] ▶
might reveal in the future and we have no idea what that might be do you can are you concerned about
[1:20:29 - 1:20:34] ▶
disruption of human civilization of of religions freaking out of people rioting in the streets
[1:20:34 - 1:20:40] ▶
the stock market crumbling from anything that you suspect could be released but hasn't yet to be
[1:20:40 - 1:20:45] ▶
something further was released and i'm afraid of people going off society going off in the wrong
[1:20:57 - 1:21:05] ▶
to happen tomorrow or or in the immediate future why would we get a incomplete story if disclosure was
[1:21:12 - 1:21:21] ▶
incomplete story an incomplete story i mean if if if you're satisfied with the fact that they would
[1:21:26 - 1:21:34] ▶
it it is my problem if i've contributed to it going on and on in the wrong direction and i don't want that
[1:22:04 - 1:22:12] ▶
well i don't think you can stop it at this point if the words you just said were said by our president
[1:22:12 - 1:22:17] ▶
and then there was some form of proof that was shown maybe in missouri like the show me state
[1:22:17 - 1:22:22] ▶
be a disclosure you know disclosure day the movie's coming up that would be a disclosure that i think
[1:22:33 - 1:22:38] ▶
people would embrace and i don't think it is anybody's job to hold back the nature of reality
[1:22:38 - 1:22:44] ▶
from humankind so i think that if we got that or is that going to reveal the nature of reality
[1:22:44 - 1:22:51] ▶
you you know you tell me but what it's going to do is stop hiding the nature of reality and so if we got
[1:22:51 - 1:22:56] ▶
that part down because it's nobody can be the overlord of truth so if we get that part down sure we
[1:22:56 - 1:23:01] ▶
be useless meaning because nobody really knows the ultimate answer the correct not even our government
[1:23:12 - 1:23:21] ▶
that it is nobody's right tell you jeremy it comes across as that and it comes across to the public as that
[1:23:33 - 1:23:40] ▶
a wrong path congress is being led down a wrong path the president is being led down the wrong path
[1:23:51 - 1:23:59] ▶
there's a problem here and i'm i'm disturbed by it because i'm not going to live forever and i want the
[1:24:01 - 1:24:06] ▶
sorry for me by you know uh the way i had to be badgered and i had people reinforcements jump up
[1:24:13 - 1:24:21] ▶
and jumped into the pitch battle and i'm talking about at the high i'm talking beyond and outside dia
[1:24:30 - 1:24:37] ▶
the fact is is there is two forces out there that want people to know and and there are those that
[1:24:38 - 1:24:46] ▶
not however the turmoil it creates has been terrible but i'm not blending that part of it i'm
[1:24:55 - 1:25:02] ▶
talking about the more fundamental in in human nature so you've had me say a lot more i look like
[1:25:02 - 1:25:09] ▶
i have a calm demeanor all the time where i actually don't you know the fact is when i'm seeing total
[1:25:09 - 1:25:15] ▶
and i said the same at ossa and people said oh no jen that's not true it's just because it's ending
[1:25:22 - 1:25:28] ▶
it was the way it was unceremoniously ended you know it was just a couple letters went out
[1:25:28 - 1:25:36] ▶
and is we just want to get rid of this attitude in the letters uh so did one side win and another side
[1:25:36 - 1:25:43] ▶
lose no because we completed the job in kona blue and what we did in dhs we competed completed
[1:25:43 - 1:25:52] ▶
the job as much as we could people asked me did no people haven't asked me but they should
[1:25:52 - 1:25:59] ▶
denied didn't exist don't you think i already knew that already this was the third attempt for that
[1:26:08 - 1:26:18] ▶
transfer under the conditions laid for us the third attempt and this was did i not know it was going to
[1:26:18 - 1:26:27] ▶
fail what i didn't know and the surprise what i didn't know was something i can't tell you right now
[1:26:27 - 1:26:37] ▶
the secure line because i was what you want what
[1:27:14 - 1:27:20] ▶
so the thing is i didn't say that to them because they would i had to say i'll try i'll try i'm trying
[1:27:22 - 1:27:28] ▶
but i i am upset because i mean people are getting spun up the government people got spun up
[1:27:29 - 1:27:36] ▶
let me tell you one big spin up and one real problem we had was the discovery of those phones
[1:27:36 - 1:27:42] ▶
that that brought attention on this project like you wouldn't believe and it was from the religious
[1:27:43 - 1:27:50] ▶
beaten back in three different organizations in fact one i believe one of the proponents was thrown out of
[1:28:11 - 1:28:18] ▶
the room literally so it was it was i'm i'm giving you a story in one sense about the experience that i had at dia
[1:28:18 - 1:28:31] ▶
you know they're in a uh they've got the management a year and i'm talking top level the directors a year
[1:28:49 - 1:28:55] ▶
and you know don't engage with them don't say the slightest word wrong uh it was just unbelievable
[1:28:55 - 1:29:04] ▶
never go forward again you may find out some pieces and that you would like to find out that the
[1:29:10 - 1:29:17] ▶
do what it needed to do and we failed at times we failed at the university we failed in brazil let's
[1:29:24 - 1:29:31] ▶
let's call it what it was you know we spent money uh we didn't fail on all the documents the 38 we
[1:29:31 - 1:29:39] ▶
didn't fail at all there we didn't fail at all on the research that bass did we got everything we needed
[1:29:39 - 1:29:45] ▶
the verifications we got the the lowdown this that true story but the thing is is
[1:29:45 - 1:29:52] ▶
you know that and it's the important story jeremy that's important to you it's the important story
[1:29:52 - 1:29:59] ▶
we got it leads into the important aspects of this and which i hope to see keep going it's it's going
[1:29:59 - 1:30:08] ▶
in which is that it's beyond just craft the importance are this great oh it's far beyond just craft
[1:30:08 - 1:30:15] ▶
and you know and some of the material we acquired show that it's far beyond it is about craft there's
[1:30:15 - 1:30:23] ▶
but you know it's constantly had reading about me do i monitor the web i monitor it very closely because i
[1:30:31 - 1:30:38] ▶
try to adjust the content of the books to that still be truthful and try to keep them entertaining
[1:30:38 - 1:30:43] ▶
but you know it's hard to around fools and i know what they say about the both of you too let's not
[1:30:44 - 1:30:50] ▶
well let's not be i know that but hey you know and i don't say i do i interview with it despite that the
[1:30:50 - 1:30:58] ▶
this don't go to the to the grave thinking that i will learn everything by the time you know i i make my
[1:31:04 - 1:31:11] ▶
flight to heaven well i i maybe you will but i just want to learn then i want to learn the next piece you
[1:31:11 - 1:31:18] ▶
um all that you've done known and unknown for the the movement that people call disclosure but really just about
[1:31:23 - 1:31:31] ▶
telling the truth um i got a bunch a bunch of messages uh yesterday and today people kind of you know i've talked to
[1:31:31 - 1:31:38] ▶
there to you that to you but it doesn't come across on the internet that way yeah uh it doesn't come
[1:31:52 - 1:31:59] ▶
across that way at all in fact i'm saying if if these are the fools we're dealing with and we might as
[1:31:59 - 1:32:05] ▶
well you know just give up right now but i tell you there are the people out there who are going to
[1:32:05 - 1:32:12] ▶
saying this right now as an old man because the crew is getting old jeremy they're going to start
[1:32:33 - 1:32:39] ▶
in the documents that say we can't find out anything this person's dead the persons are all gone
[1:32:46 - 1:32:53] ▶
northern tiers become meaningless in other words the the saucers uh coming into the purported saucers
[1:32:54 - 1:33:01] ▶
intelligence that the security guards at dia had blocked them from leaving unless they'd talk to me
[1:33:10 - 1:33:16] ▶
involving the same thing and coercion into the the missile silos but the fact is is we failed in getting
[1:33:24 - 1:33:33] ▶
how does the internet also breeds false documents it has plenty of false information out there deliberate
[1:33:39 - 1:33:47] ▶
the lines and see well you went to brazil and you went there really to get a blood sample of a particular
[1:33:57 - 1:34:04] ▶
individual and that and you were promised that from the key individuals both here and in brazil that
[1:34:04 - 1:34:11] ▶
that would be obtained and it wasn't obtained you know because i'm quite used to having the rug pulled
[1:34:11 - 1:34:18] ▶
out from under me in this project and uh sinister forces no i don't think so it's just the way it's done
[1:34:18 - 1:34:26] ▶
is the ultimate um you've been optimistic in in previous conversations you know about where this could lead
[1:34:27 - 1:34:34] ▶
the same could be could go in the wrong direction you wrote these books and these books will resonate
[1:34:41 - 1:34:47] ▶
through time and maybe right now humanity's not ready to to really take it on the nose with this stuff
[1:34:47 - 1:34:53] ▶
or we're asking the wrong questions but what you've done will last the test of time jim you realize that
[1:34:53 - 1:34:58] ▶
well you can't say this and this is you know z but you've just said a all the way up to um y but
[1:36:16 - 1:36:23] ▶
interest and because that's we got to find out what's underneath the hood there man he is a mystical
[1:36:29 - 1:36:35] ▶
appreciate him and people online man give him give the guy a break he's not he doesn't have a thick
[1:36:47 - 1:36:51] ▶
and and it's up to us to take it from there yeah i think the interesting thing for him is
[1:36:58 - 1:37:03] ▶
uh first a legal one you know he made oaths it's his honor on the line he made a promise he would
[1:37:03 - 1:37:11] ▶
go this far and no further and there's a legal issue involved he he got authorization because that's the
[1:37:11 - 1:37:17] ▶
that he uh he gets permission legal authority to reveal more and he won't go further the more
[1:37:24 - 1:37:30] ▶
is that ultimately nobody knows the ultimate truth we don't know where these things are from
[1:37:35 - 1:37:42] ▶
we don't know who built these craft we don't know the long-range implications of for is there a plan for
[1:37:42 - 1:37:48] ▶
conversations with him and with others you know we've long suspected nobody really knows the
[1:37:54 - 1:38:00] ▶
answers to this you and i've been pretty far up the food chain asking the same kind of questions
[1:38:00 - 1:38:05] ▶
ets they're from the planet krypton and here's why they're here and this is what they want to do
[1:38:09 - 1:38:14] ▶
they were true or they were a test of some kind we have yet to find a single person in the u.s
[1:38:20 - 1:38:26] ▶
government that knows the ultimate answers we what he has shared with us is as far as he can go but he
[1:38:26 - 1:38:32] ▶
doesn't have any knowledge of what the ultimate answers are any more than we do he certainly knows
[1:38:33 - 1:38:38] ▶
know the ultimate answers to the big questions and people can stomp and yell stomp their feet and
[1:38:43 - 1:38:49] ▶
demand the full truth but they're never going to be satisfied because nobody else really knows the
[1:38:49 - 1:38:54] ▶
answers to those either i think the most interesting tidbits in that exchange that we haven't discussed
[1:38:54 - 1:39:00] ▶
kona blue as if it is real you know the popular conception is it ended that dhs kicked it out
[1:39:05 - 1:39:12] ▶
into some aspect of working on the phenomenon that it wasn't a dead program that it's not a dead
[1:40:10 - 1:40:15] ▶
in the most just specific direct you know order and it's got to be frustrating that people are out
[1:41:00 - 1:41:07] ▶
there in ufo land spreading lies making things up it's a fantasist world in ufo land a lot of the time
[1:41:07 - 1:41:13] ▶
looking at the sunset of their life in a way i mean he's not getting any younger and he said that
[1:41:19 - 1:41:24] ▶
to fill in the blanks in in some of the things that he shared with us and i think he's discouraged to
[1:41:40 - 1:41:46] ▶
especially if you get from a guy like him who says look i don't know anybody that knows the full picture
[1:42:10 - 1:42:14] ▶
come back and maybe he'll share that with us in the future anyway it was a great conversation yeah thanks so
[1:42:40 - 1:42:45] ▶